2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

Hi @ledoux1238,

I hesitate to comment on other manufacturers’ products, unless the discussion is general in nature (design approaches, etc. and not better/worse). In the case of the SOTA, I’ve never played with it.

You have an excellent point about the two Verdier bases. Anytime a spring (resonant frequency) is a factor, it means that mass is a consideration (as well as the characteristics of the materials), so yes, Granito vs. MDF would indeed behave differently for all of these reasons.

My comment about locking down all suspension related to the resonant loop comprised of the motor drive, the "belt", and the base/platter. Subtle relative movements between the drive components can affect speed stability on the "micro" level I described earlier.

In this sense, any suspension in the loop, whether it be some "squishy" footers under the drive system, or springs under the turntable base/platter will have similar effects to that of a rubber belt.

The good news is that suspension under a fairly massive base like that of the Verdier is likely to have a smaller effect than that of a rubber belt due to the platter/base assembly being high mass, and "jiggling" quite a bit less (much less so than for example, a Linn turntable).

You may well find this to be continuum - that a bit of compliance will be the best compromise in your system. In general, I fall into the camp that less (suspension) is more.

Some of this has to do with musical values - your perceptual framework and what in a musical performance your attention is drawn to, and we’re all different in this regard. I tend to listen to a lot of rhythmically complex music with interleaving musical lines, so dynamic behavior is important to me.

My take is that when the urge to experiment strikes (and we all know that it occurs frequently with Verdier owners <grin>) that you play with taking as many "springs" out of your drive system as possible - as long as it’s reversible.

... Thom @ Galibier Design

Hi Thom,

".. Some of this has to do with musical values - your perceptual framework and what in a musical performance your attention is drawn to, and we’re all different in this regard. I tend to listen to a lot of rhythmically complex music with interleaving musical lines, so dynamic behavior is important to me .."

You express the issue very well. It is about how we set our musical priorities.  I will experiment with a temporary suspension defeat using adjustable footers as my MDF plinth could use some help. Learn a bit about the SQ, and eventually investigate the motor. Your help, Thom, will be sought after.

The amount of knowledge and insights gained from this post with future insights yet to come, the informed discussions, sharing of experiences, and some criticisms of my Audio Nervosa have contributed greatly to the understanding of my vinyl front end and taught me what to listen to. What is coming out of the speakers now is far superior to that just some nine months ago! Given the whirlwind sweeping around us, this has turned out to be a safe harbor. 

Many thanks !

During the past six months, I have concentrated on improving the performances of my arm, Trans-Fi Terminator, and cartridge ( Audio Tekne MC6310 ) alignment, VTF, VTA..etc. The sound quality from vinyl playback is quite unbelievable. Last night the experience of listening to Everyone Digs Bill Evans is a case in point. Philly Joe Jones' drumming floats distinctly with 'air' on the right side behind the speaker and in front of the back wall. Quite uncanny! 

Each record has a different 'sound' that I can easily  distinguish and no two sound alike. The ability to hear into the recording venue, to separate the varies instruments, ....etc is all there. The listening experience is one of music enjoyment / appreciation without the interference or the awareness of the equipments playing the music.

Recently I got in touch with a fellow La Platine owner around my neck of the woods in Hong Kong. This gentleman, Dave, was a strictly digital guy until three years ago. With the help of a friend, he was able to compare in one sitting seven TT's, Gerrard, Teachdas, and among others. He decided on the Verdier. And he has a very knowledgable consultant, Richard Mak of AnalogMagik, who is himself a two La Platine owner. And below is some of his observations and experimentations:


1. Motor

Dave also opted to switch out the motor. Presently his is using the uber -expensive Dereneville motor. To make a long story short, he told me to stick with the original motor. 
While I had been complaining about sound drift and speed instabilities in the beginning of the thread, the turntable seemed to have attain some sort of balance? I occasionally check with the ol' Sutherland Timeline, and I am getting spot on reading. 
I have kept with the pure silk thread which is literally half the diameter of the regular linen thread. And I added neoprene spacers underneath the spindle. That is  all the tweaking that I have done. In my mind the motor is a non -issue now.


2. Suspension

Using Stillpoints and some other footers, Dave had defeated the suspension. And his listening experience was not positive. He claims that the 'sound' became very boring. In the end he went back to the original suspension with ebony spacers added underneath the original footers. 

While there are strong advocate of  non-suspended turntable, the issue really is the combined dynamic of the plinth/platter, motor and the coupling of the two with belt / thread. Thom at Galibier advocates non-suspension, but with tape coupling motor and platter. I wondered if the thread drive which is favored by most Verdier users might not benefit from the suspension as was the original design intent and as had be mentioned by Chris in earlier threads. 


3. Platform

The tweak with the biggest sonic benefit for the Verdier was the additional of an air-bearing platform by Dave. He currently uses a platform by the Chinese maker FFYX with improvements across the board. He now claims that the Verdier rivals the Techdas AF 1 no less. I prefer to take that as hyperbole, but he was quite serious. 


4. Arm pod

Please refer to this link for the beautiful custom arm boards he commissioned from Magna Audio in UK: Armboards, Pods & Plinths | magna-audio. They are so heavy he added spring suspension underneath the plinth as support. I am not quite clear if they may not be overkill, but.....

In any case, my take away from talking to Dave is that the original motor is sound ( perhaps a DC conversion may be an option ), don't defeat the suspension, and adding a good platform under the TT.

I admire your enthusiasm for this classic turntable. I was using the Nouvelle Platine upgraded by Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 for about 5 years. I have also heard the Platine multiple times. You are absolutely correct on few things:

1. The suspension and low noise string drive allows the platine to provide a very silent background on which instruments float.

2. Replacing the suspension with any rigid cone or stillpoints makes the sound dry

3. Changing the string for fishing line, rubber belts or any such thing ended in an inferior sound

However, here is the thing about the sound of the Verdier which cannot be rectified. It sounds slow. The pitch is not true. I am very sensitive to accuracy of PRAT. It is a foundational attribute. Even a basic television or a $100 player gets it and thats why we are able to enjoy music on such elementary sources. Unfortunately, Verdier and many other players in the "high-end" do not keep the pitch and time. Probably because the designers have always chased the goals of an ultra silent, impressive playback. To me they are designers but they do not have the ear for accuracy of music. The world of audio is all filled with such people who do not get the structure of music and unfortunately at the helm of designs of the most expensive audio equipments. Same goes to reviewers who review these products. BTW, I did enjoy my time with Verdier, always knowing what it is missing. In the process I too tried all the tweaks like you and other Verdier owners.

Now I use a Jean Nantais Reference Lenco MK2. Not as quiet as Verdier but it plays music without the structure 

@pani
During the past long weekend here, it was spent carefully listening for the ‘ slowness ‘  you mentioned in the belt-drive format. Frankly without  a direct comparison, I do not hear it. My sole experience with idler drive is from a Garrard 301 front end and  mostly vintage components. The sense of drive and power in the music was palpable. I remember coming away appreciating the system, but not thinking it superior. That was just one experience in a unfamiliar system. 

But your comments has gotten me researching Idler drive and DD. My enthusiasm for the Verdier is partly due to the amount of research devoted to understanding the TT. I bought the turntable knowing only one salient feature, its magnetic drive. And throughout the twenty years of ownership ( with several years in storage ) many features were experimented upon. The game of audio, for me, is first the love of music, of course.  Even more, it is an intellectual pursuit, a sense of discovery through music and its mechanical reproduction. I do believe I will be venturing into the other two drive systems.