3 New UBER Decks - Is this Turntable's SwanSong? 🦢


Michael Fremer has recently reviewed three new turntables designed to be the 'Last Word', 'Cost no Object' STATEMENTS!!!!........Do I recall hearing this claim before??
I love Mikey and have followed (and trusted) him for decades.
He has been the longest and foremost published 'champion' of the superiority of vinyl (uber alles) in the world.
I am thus ecstatic that he has been able to listen and compare these decks in his own room, with his own equipment virtually side-by-side
It's almost a 'given' that he will be the ONLY person on earth given that privilege....

So what Mikey HEARS.....is indisputable

Given his 'character' and desire for accuracy and honesty.....years ago, Mikey started including some 'objective' measurements in his turntable reviews.
These measurements were done utilising the Dr Feikert PlatterSpeed App which has since been discontinued.
As the App only worked with the Mac iOS of many variations ago.....Mikey has kept an old iPhone which can still operate the App.
The PlatterSpeed App had a few technical limitations.....
Foremost amongst these, was its dependence on a 7" record with an embedded 3150 Hz Frequency track to produce a test-tone which the App could process through its algorithm to produce the graphs and all the corresponding numbers.
To stamp hundreds of 7" discs with perfectly 'centred' HOLES is a nigh impossibility.
It's almost impossible to do it with a 12" disc!!!

This means that ALL the figures produced in their Chart Info are dubious and mostly UNREPEATABLE!!!!
I have Chart Infos for the same turntable/arm combination but with the 7" disc moved slightly producing different figures.
I even have Chart Infos produced with the same turntable but different arms ALL with different figures (the arms are in different positions surrounding my TURNTABLE).

So what is my point......?
The GRAPH produced with the PlatterSpeed App is accurate and USEABLE when looking at the 'Green' Lowpass-Filtered Frequency.
If the hole was PERFECTLY centred.....this 'Green' line would be perfectly STRAIGHT......but only if the turntable was maintaining its speed PERFECTLY.
The wobbles in the 'Green' line are due to the hole's eccentricity as well as any speed aberrations.
So the best performing turntables are those with the most constant and even wobbles approaching as closely as possible a STRAIGHT LINE.

Now the SAT Direct Drive Motor is actually the same as Technics developed for their latest SL-1000R except with some bespoke modifications.
It appears that SAT have corrupted what is a very good DD Motor unit....🥴

Mikey says that the OMA-K3 produced the best PlatterApp figures of any turntable he has tested 👏
Does this mean that the OMA-K3 is the most accurate turntable of these three decks.....or maybe of ALL turntables?

Mikey can't (and won't) test and review products from the past which are no longer produced because that's not his job!
But wouldn't it be great if someone WOULD review products from the past against the modern equivalent?
Classic turntables with reputations....gravitas...like the legendary EMT 927 and Micro Seiki SX-5000 and SX-8000.
And what about the NOW lauded Japanese DD Turntables from the '80s...the 'Golden Age' of Analogue?
  • Technics SP-10Mk3
  • Kenwood L-07D
  • Pioneer P3
  • Victor TT-101
  • Yamaha GT-2000
Because we know that Direct Drive is now 'Flavour of the Month' for the new Uber Decks due to their superior speed accuracy....a 'Flavour' that started with the legendary Rockport Sirius III.
But what about Belt-Drive units like my 20 year-old Raven?
So much for science and technology.......

We can do things today that were only dreamt of even 10 years ago
Except learn from history, harvest experience, expertise and craftsmanship......

Here endeth the Sermon for today 🤗


128x128halcro
While turntables are not easy for the average person to truly compare, especially since they need the same arm and cart, I can relay some of my own experience upgrading tables.

Speed stability is a fantastic thing (listen to some Plangent process digital masterings vs. a standard one and you hear how solid it sounds when tape machine wow and flutter is corrected.

However I’m not sure that’s where the sonic benefits come from comparing well designed tables.

Many years ago I upgraded from a Raven One table that I heavily tweaked. It sat on a Halcyonics active vibration table with a Sistrum stand bypassing the table’s feet. It had a TTW copper platter top/clamp/ periphery ring and tape leader as a belt. It was a fantastic sounding table and taken to another level with tweeks.

I became so enamored with TTW’s accessories, I bought their Momentus Supreme table driven by 3 belts. I was expecting an improvement, but a nuanced one.

I put the same Graham Phantom II arm and Strain Gauge cart on the TTW and I was pretty shocked to hear just how much more dynamic the music was, and how much wider bandwidth it had.

This was just the pure table without vibration table or copper platter top. It was truly eye opening and a good lesson I suppose on how there is no getting around physics, at least as analog goes.

I can only imagine what a cost no object table sounds like..... (of course I’ve set myself up for someone to come back and say.... “it sounds like a $1000 dac”)

I haven’t fired up my Adjust Plus software (a more complex version of the App the measurement in this topic were taken from- but came with a 12” LP) in a very long time, because I’m a Mac guy and it’s PC only, but I’m now tempted to get it going and test out my table’s speed stability.
The Yellow trace is a a long way away from the ideal sine wave, its pretty messy. This TT is not micro speed stable.
So you're basically saying.....with the PlatterSpeed App
  • Ignore the numbers
  • Ignore the Green Trace (Low-Pass Filtered Frequency)
  • Just value the Yellow Trace (Raw Frequency)
Is that correct....?
BTW the TT-101 is one of the TT's that has the subsonic resonance.
Please have the courtesy to show the evidence for this statement...🤥
Dear @halcro : Years ago when every one including you were touted the JVC 101 I posted at least 3 times in those threads ( in your thread. ) that the 101 was an average TT with nothing especial to say Wow.

I know that you was so angry with me because my posts about but its specs are really mediocre/average for a DD unit with a w&f 0.02% and s/n 75db, normal for average TTs. Denons way superior on specs and some of its models came with bi-directional servos too but Denon decided not a good thing and return to single servo including in its top DP-100.

Other that what Richard pointed out a fact is in the price that had the 101 that was low:

The top of the line 801 specs were similar to the average Denon’s: 0.01% and 80db. This unit came with hold down LP mechanism and even that characteristic its price in Japan was 130,000 Yens when the Technics MK3 was ( in the same year. ) 250,000 Yens ( MK2: 150K. ). The 101 was 75K. These data comes from the audio Japan Bible.

Is it a bad TT ? no but you overrated with no clear facts that even today you have not and that’s why you are questioning RK.

Don’t distress about because you are enjoying it and this is what matters to you. So what ! ! the TT still is an average unit and nothing more.

Btw, even with out the RK posts all what I posted here is the same I posted years ago and I just confirmed again. Nothing changed and og course is only an opinion.

R.

Halcro.

I think that the numbers and green graph are useful provided their limitations are taken into account.

Mean frequency....

This is a good number to have. We are looking for 3150Hz, so nice and close to this is desirable.

Raw frequency…

Max deviation. (relative ) This is the max percentage deviation, negative and positive, from the mean frequency. Ideally the two numbers should be the same

Max deviation (absolute) This is the max frequency deviation, negative and positive from the mean frequency. Ideally the two numbers should be the same.

What the deviation numbers do not show is the variation between the deviation of individual positive and negative swings. They all should be the same, (constant amplitude) and for this information we need to refer to the yellow graph.

Lowpass-filtered Frequency.....

This data taken from the green trace. The limitation here is that this trace is heavily filtered version of the yellow trace. And it is very inconsistent from test to test.

Look at the 1000R yellow trace and compare this with the TT-101 yellow trace. There is an enormous difference yet, post filtering they yield very similar green traces  

I have run sequential tests on my SP10 Mk 3 and got Low pass -0.01%/+0.01% followed by -0.02%/ +0.03%. I have outlined some of the reasons for this inconsistency. As I said earlier, below a certain percentage, these figures aren't robust.

Obviously we do not want to see any standout perturbations in the green trace and in this way it can be very useful.

My point is that this data is derived from the yellow trace which is taken from the cartridge output. After all, it is the cartridge’s output that we listen to. To really see how the TT is behaving in fine detail, we need to analyse the yellow trace from the perspective of what a perfectly speed stable TT would look like. A clean sine wave, symmetrically centred around 3150hz with a constant amplitude for each cycle. As we can see, advances in technology have clearly improved the situation.  

 The subsonic speed resonance in the TT-101 can be seen as periodic cycling every 5 revolutions. If you look at the first traces you posted (yellow) , you will see a positive peak just after 5 seconds. This peak appears again just after14 and 23 seconds. The smaller positive and negative excursions in between these peaks follow the same pattern with their 9 second spaced partners. There is a recurring pattern to the shape of this waveform with a period of 9 seconds.  

 

Cheers,