7500 for USED cables? Are they joking?

Thanks Mark for the post and everyone else for the civility on this topic.

Lmb: "one of the assumptions is that the free electrons available for conducting electric signals tend to be polarized in a "broken in" cable." I am not certain what you mean and I do not want to put word in your mouth.

I have heard similar explanations at more length. My problem with the argument is as follows. (Please understand that I make no claim to understand the intricacies of how an audio signal works and am, quite frankly, dumbfounded by it the closer I look.)

1)The audio signal is an ac signal, that is, the direction of the current flow changes with each half cycle.

2)This means that there is basically no net direction to the current flow. "Current" flows equally in both directions. If this is true, even if there is such a thing as "polorized electrons" how could that aid the flow of electrons if they are moving in two directions?

3)In any event it is not the "flow" of electrons that carries the audio signal but rather the electric field/voltage that transfers the energy of the signal.The field moves through the electrons a little like a wave through water (very imperfect analogy). Electrons move at the speed of light but the "drift velocity" of the electrons in a cable is very slow (a couple inches per second). It's slow because of the huge excess of electrons available. During the negative half of the signal electrons are actually pulled back into the amp and basically go back and forth in this manner. Many electrons leaving the amp may never make it to the speaker. The electric field/voltage on the other hand moves at the speed of light.

In any event, I do not understand how you polorize a particle that is by definition negatively charged and what good it would do if you could do it.

Sincerely, I remain

Instead of cable burner I have a great recipie on how to burn without burner. If you're interested send me e-mail.

I do appload to Mark for this great discussion and conclusive thought about reality. If anyone wishes to ask me about the calculated numbers on different interconnect wires, equivalent circuits and how they're actually calculated in difference from the manufacturer's "scientific" explaination I will try to bring it to you in the simpliest English and digits. I would also want to try to check the legal side of that issue and take on my arms osciloscope, multimeter, pen, calculator and the paper to prove that there is NO difference between $7500/m interconnect and $35/m interconnect since I'm an engineer and I do understand what's going on. But wait, if there is a group of consumers why not sell and who finally will win?
Unfortunately not engineers in that case.

Responding to one of Mark's posts above, I am not a Luddite either, but I am a Neanderthal (figuratively as well as genetically I think).

As I've said many times before, I love these cables threads on A'gon, because they go on and on. As some have noted above, it is nice to be able to have a civilized conversation abut this subject. On the other big websites, you can't talk about it. No mention of DBT is allowed at the Cable Asylum, and that's fine - I am not critical of that rule. At Audioreview.com's Cable forum, you can't suggest that anything sounds different from or better than 12 gauge stranded from a hardware store or the interconnects that come in the boxes of mid-fi components without being drowned out and subjected to ridicule.

Here we have 3 or 4 camps with subgroups all talking, and the benefit is someone may learn enough to question his own assumptions and either find a killer cable that makes his system sound better or save a lot of money by deciding for himself that the cheap stuff is just as good.

I was going to say something about alternating current and "direction," but I think Clueless has covered the subject better than I could.

I have tried and rejected some mid-priced speaker cables (like Nordost Blue Heaven, Kimber 8TC and one of the MIT cables) because I didnt like the way I thought they sounded (on a sighted basis, and one or another of them may have revealed some deficiency in the system I was using at the time, - so if I were testifying in court that is all I could say). I have played around with sub $400 interconeects, compared them to the Radio Shack cables recommended by John Dunlavy (which aren't as bad as they are annoying to use) and settled on some well shielded cables with locking WBT-like barrel connectors made by a local pro gear company that cost $40. The interconnects I use seem to me to get the job done. For some strange reason, all the other interconnects I have tried seem to alter the signal somehow or, let in too much rfi, emi and just noise from light fixtures and such. I don't know how an interconnect makes the sound brighter or duller, but some seem to do so (again on a sighted basis - the differences I perceive may disappear in a DBT).

I am inclined to believe the ees who say simple competently designed cables are as good as anything else you can buy. Their arguments make sense to me and since I'm cheap I am biased in their favor.

The initial point of this thread way up there was not "don't all cables sound the same," but is it necessary to spend a fortune on good cables. I think most people here probably agree that it isn't necessary. Disagreeing are a lot of people who havent responded including a few who have invested in the Nordost Valhalla or that even more expensive stuff, and who evidently thought it made sense to do so.

What does it mean when you know less than someone who is "clueless?"

Marc, I have been using a cable burner for quite a while now (Audiodharma, made by Alan Kafton) to break in all the cables, before I send them out to my customers.
Since I had chance to audition more than 50 different brands of cables, I can tell you, it made always a huge difference before and after.
I am putting again a brand of cables to the test against my HMS cables and the day I got my competitors cables, I put it straight into my system. They sounded quite edgy, metallic, if you want. After two days on my cable cooker though, it had vastly improved.
Now I was able to conduct my private little cable shoot-out, to see if other cables can best the price-performance ratio I have found in my cables.
(Since I do not want to bash the competition, I do not say names here anymore) but as you must be aware of, I have done some rather bold statements regarding HMS cables, which, up till now, still hold up.
So yes, in my opinion a cable cooker is a wise investment.
Talk to Alan about it (I am getting no provision here). He will explain everything much better than I can. But for me, a cable cooker works.

Yes 7500 for cables is a lot if your paying for the manufacturers ad in this months audio specialists mags.But there are many super cables out there that do not have the press or the trendy exposure and reproduce the music without killing your pocketbook.Cables do make a big difference.Have an open mind and cautious wallet.