A few systems heard at the Rocky Mntn. audiofest

I think this thread is very useful and potentially even more so if we can get past the personal issues. I'd appreciate other people sharing their listening strategies.

I find that I'm unable to assess an audio setup when the recorded music is amplified, synthesized or highly processed in its origin, since in that case it is much harder to know what the original performance (if any) would have sounded like. Therefore, I'm also one of those people that won't stick around unless the audition software is classical or acoustic music of some kind, played at a natural volume. How many people feel the same way about evaluating equipment, even though their listening tastes might embrace a much wider selection of recorded music?

Even in the case of classical and other acoustic music, modern mixing practices often result in a sound picture that is significantly different from the live performance. Especially in the categories of "soundstage" and "balance", what you hear is partly the recording engineer's re-interpretation or manipulation of the sound. I sometimes have trouble knowing what the playback equipment is doing or not doing in those areas, even when listening to what I consider to be an optimal source for evaluation, such as chamber music or a jazz ensemble.

Feedback welcome from anyone who has worked through any of these issues.

One way to eliminate one variable--an unfamiliar piece of music or recording--is to bring your own. That's what I did. The Rutter recording played in the Herron room sounded very nice, but I had NO idea what it sounds like on ANY other system.

Because I am HIGHLY familiar with the recording I brought, the first 10 seconds in the AvantGarde room gave me a good idea how that system sounded, and 15 minutes of it told me the system sounded VERY good. This Boult/Holst Planets is simply my favorite piece of evaluation music--I LOVE the work AND the performance AND the recording.
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I went to the show as well.It has been many years since I went to one.approx.10 years ago at a Stereophile show in S.F.CA.
My reference is live classical music since thats what I've been playing in our local symphony for the past 15 years as a bass trombone player for The Skagit Symphony.
I had spoke briefly to Albert Porter about my lack of enthusiasm I heard with the sound of most the sytems at the show.
Almost none of them generated any true acuarate deep bass or mid bass foundation to the music.Most sytems were tipped up on the top end,and lean and light in the mid bass and non existent in the deep bass with a couple of exceptions.
The Herron room presented music with its proper weight in this area as well as the Sumiko room with the 5k Rel Sub in the corner of the back wall.One fellow asked to play a chinese drum CD I beleive and the whole room was shaking and vibrating with so much undistorted dynamic slam.What a treat it was to hear and feel that.
I was dissapointed with the sound of the ZYX Universe.I know I might be stepping on peoples toes by saying this,But it just was not acurately portraying the acoustic trail of the reverberation surounding individual instruments or voices.Oddly the cartridge sounded lean and bright in the upper mid band with the sound to forward sounding even more so on the ZYX 3B.It also lacked power and depth in the deep bass and midbass.But this is coming from my trained ears as a musician for 35 years.If you want high fi sound then I guess that is what this cartridge does,But IMO I'm a Raul converter and just simply love the Dynavector XX by a very wide margin over the ZYX Cartridges.
But I still had a great exausting time at the show.I had the 3 day pass and needed all of the 3 days to hear a little from most the rooms.I missed the AG horns .I guess I need to go next year and hear that.
The other room I liked was the Oracle V Turntable with their own special made preamp.The Oracle table sounded so much like real music being played.It had the coerence from bottom to top that all the other tables were missing by a wide margin IMO.
Well if next year is anything like this year they will need to extend the show and extra day and getting larger rooms would help acostically the systems being shown.

Doublebass,

Your impressions mirror mine regarding the lack of full frequency source material. To everyone else, I don't take exception at all to what Golden_ears suggests. Also, I didn't take his post as a criticism of me nor was my reply meant as a response to a supposed personal attack.

Also, you won't go wrong with a Dynavector doublebass. Be aware though that the first Airy 3 S SB I saw at the show had some kind of problem that was glaringly apparent to me with the first note I heard. It appeared to be mounted correctly or at least close enough. Maybe it was loaded improperly. What I heard was exactly what you describe. I can't remember the name of the room but I did tell them upon leaving that I owned the exact cartridge they were using and they had a problem. I'm only sharing this if this is the same cartridge you auditioned. Again, I love the Dyna's too.

I listen to more live music than most people I know. My preference is for jazz, blues and bluegrass. Realizing that this type of music is usually amplified vs. classical which is not causes some conflict in audiophile circles about comparrison of components. I honestly fail to see a difference here. One simply needs to listen to a source you're very familiar with backed up with experience as a live listener of that source. For myself I don't concentrate on audiophile recordings upon audition. (just to be clear, I consider many generic first pressings to be superior to their re-issued counterparts) I've enjoyed the advantage of knowing a lot of good musicians and have jammed with them for several decades, using mostly acoustic instruments, unamplified. I'm very familiar with the voices of these instruments and feel that it's a very valuable asset to bring into the auditioning of any component. To my ears you can bring as much value to the audition with experience such as mine vs. intimate listening experience of classical. Certainly, it is easier to evaluate anything if you have a live reference.

I have a few vocal benchmarks of artists I've heard many times. I worked with the Kingston Trio three times for three week stretches each, two performances each day. I know Bob Shane's voice. Willie Nelson and Neil Young are artists that I've heard many times and who remain faithful to the recordings when playing live. These are the voices I use during audition.

Listening at various volumes is an often overlooked aspect of auditioning. Take charge of the volume control. I try to buy components that portray accurately what I'm listening to at any volume. If I don't hear the details or bass response at lesser volumes then I develop the opinion that I need to find something else.

Back in the good old days when I had a really great local high end shop I could audition components in my home for extended periods. Under those circumstances I could tell more when a piece is removed from my system than upon first listen. If this were still a common practice I'd likely continue to buy retail.

I hope one can gain a little from my eperience here. Auditioning is a real challenge. I recall fondly those individuals throughout my life that helped me develop a modicum of skills for auditioning. Best advice? Work on your audio memory of live events. If you go to a rock concert then come home and listen to the same material. Do the same thing with any live music you attend, even if it's just to compare your memory of a tenor sax live vs. a recording you know well of the same instrument.

Thanks for your response.I know I have seen posts previously on the Audiogon about how outstanding the ZYX is,But I was really taken back from what I heard at the show,and did not consider the musical presentation true to the live source.It was as if someone had eq'd up atleast +6 db from 4K to 15K and then -6DB from 16k to 20K.Thats how the ZYX Universe sounded to me,and the ZYX 3B was bright,hard,brittle,lean in the bass and no bass fullness or power.I'm wishing that these cartridges properly set up don't sound this way.
My experience with anything cryo treated should reveal in a musical presentation deep bass,and a very natural extended top end,with a huge wall to wall soundstage with layer depth of field eteched throughout that soundstage.