Albert Porters after market panzerholz plinths

Tellefsen Having read your comment's regarding your direct drive table I can emphatically say there is a leap in performance going to panzerholz material. Soft slate I have no working experience with.

Think about this for a moment.

Why would Albert Porter or anyone else for that matter go to all that extra expense and difficulties working with panzerholz when other common material is so easily available anywhere and much , much cheaper.
Personally with all the work involved and cutting bit resharpen bills I don't thick Albert is making much profit at all with his line of panzerholz plinths.
So for those that think Porter is using panzerholz material only to justify his prices you are mistaken.

Panzerholz works and works exceptionally well for bolting a direct drive table to it.

You may have read comments here and there from sceptical penny pinching DIYers on a shoe string budget that boo hoo panzerholz.
All of it totally unfounded.

With all do respect for Raul and his clever idea to use a direct drive without a conventional plinth as most of us know it.
Direct drives are very sensitive to what they are sitting in and on , I understand this clearly as does Raul.

I prefer a conventional plinth with pivoting arm boards myself.
Halcro and all the other great guys using their direct drives nude have good reasons to love it.

In_Shore's comments regarding the merits of a good and proper plinth are spot on.

The reason to build a solid plinth is to calm the excessive vibration from the SP 10's and the Garrard 301 or Lenco for that matter, since they generate a huge amount of torque that causes resonances. This torque is the curse and blessing of a DD or Idler design, because they sound so dynamic. If you can reduce the vibration, you are left with wonderful dynamics.

A well designed plinth stabilizes the operating platform by adding different types of mass to minimize the problem of different resonances.

Concurrently, a good power supply attacks the problem from a different direction by providing a good clean sine wave, that once again makes the powerful drive system behave more efficiently and smoother with less vibration.

The better the plinth design, the less the vibrations that cause resonance, which blur micro detail.The combination of a well engineered plinth and good power supply also lowers the noise floor enhancing the cartridges ability to dig out detail.

I currently use a Technics Sp 10 and a Garrard 301, both in panzerholst bases, that would not deliver the level of sound they do without the plinth. I not saying panzerholst is the only solution, slate is an elegant solution as well, but the common dominator is intelligently adding mass to damp resonant frequencies. I tried the Garrard with 2 different light weight plinths with disastrous results. It was only after I heard a Technics SP 10 in a Panzerholst plinth at Albert Porter's home, did I realize doing this on the cheap doesn't work!

Enough said. These are my experiences and I know others feel differently and I respect their opinions, but politely disagree.

In_Shore's comments regarding the merits of a good and proper plinth are spot on.

The reason to build a solid plinth is to calm the excessive vibration from the SP 10's and the Garrard 301 or Lenco for that matter, since they generate a huge amount of torque that causes resonances. This torque is the curse and blessing of a DD or Idler design, because they sound so dynamic. If you can reduce the vibration, you are left with wonderful dynamics.

A well designed plinth stabilizes the operating platform by adding different types of mass to minimize the problem of different resonances.

Concurrently, a good power supply attacks the problem from a different direction by providing a good clean sine wave, that once again makes the powerful drive system behave more efficiently and smoother with less vibration.

The better the plinth design, the less the vibrations that cause resonance, which blur micro detail.The combination of a well engineered plinth and good power supply also lowers the noise floor enhancing the cartridges ability to dig out detail.

I currently use a Technics Sp 10 and a Garrard 301, both in panzerholst bases, that would not deliver the level of sound they do without the plinth. I not saying panzerholst is the only solution, slate is an elegant solution as well, but the common dominator is intelligently adding mass to damp resonant frequencies. I tried the Garrard with 2 different light weight plinths with disastrous results. It was only after I heard a Technics SP 10 in a Panzerholst plinth at Albert Porter's home, did I realize doing this on the cheap doesn't work!

Enough said. These are my experiences and I know others feel differently and I respect their opinions, but politely disagree.

I appreciate all the good comments. My current plinth is the SH-10B3. I do have some Stillpoints on the way as well as Walker Valid points and Mapleshade triple points to try under my current plinth.
I suppose my thoughts are that any of the alternate plinths to be consider (aside from nude) are custom built products. So however I might arrive at a decision on which alternate plinth to try, it amounts to a leap of faith on a non-returnable product..So the opinions of those you trust who have walked the same path are valuable to consider. Thanks

The merits of using panzerholz as a plinth material because of its dampening properties has potential and should be explored among many other materials. It will come down NOT ONLY to the choice in materials but also to the "execution" of its implementation....your system biases, your personal taste biases/preferences, how much or how little is used [more isnt necessarily better, ie it is possible to damp one frequency too far, one not at all].

"On paper" it has good potential but in practice results may vary. This is what i theorize. I dont claim to know.

If dealers arent selling for profit what are they selling for? Are they donating to charity? or is panzerholz a worthy cause?

Perhpaps they believe in their product, would like to offer a good product and make a little money at the same time? Nothing wrong with that.

As i've stated ...my experience with panzerholz , in my situation was positive, i would say it was a step in the right direction. Did it fix every sonic fault in my vinyl playback? i dont think so...did it meet every single parameter necessary to complete the "perfect sonic envelope", I dont think so.

Am i loving the norah jones lp spinning on my record player with plain jane cld plinth ,with panzerholz armboard, breuer arm and allaerts cart?...Yes! very impressed! ...VERY impressed. If i changed nothing but only switched out the cld plinth for panzerholz plinth would it improve every parameter without the loss of any other? would it be an overall bettering of the sound? Honestly...I dont know...i cause i really believe that sound has to be "tuned".

You have to mix "cold" with "warm" in the proper proportions. Mix "analytical" with "syrupy"...

So...who can say that my birch ply/mdf doesnt beautifully compliment the cleaness of my breuer arm and panzerholz might be too much of a certain sonic attribute of which i already have enough of already from some other component?

"Neutral" has to be "cooked up" by listening, mixing and matching. I know my thinking might be a bit unorthodox but there is a degree of mystery to "good sound", WHERE.. you will find it , that is.

I am open to being way off ....and maybe a panzerholz plinth would in fact categorically, across the board, blow away the current perceived synergy i have with my current "ingredients" on my table and that in every hifi situation it is in fact the answer "categorically" and we all must abandon all other materials in favor of this one....but....

Ones mileage may very?

The best thing you can do....is....give it a shot. Then compare it against...slate or this or that and see if what you said about panzerholz after other comparisons still remains the same.

Will someone, someday sell, their panzerholz plinthed table for a table they preferred more? for sonic reasons? If yes, it doesn't mean anything, someone just needed to cook with different ingredients to get the sound they're looking for out of just their head and into their room.

When i did the panzerholz armboard "shoot out" i made sure to keep all parameters the same, except for armboard material utilized. I did this cause i like to be objective about the results otherwise i will forever wonder if it was in fact the material or some change in some other area in the system. [not knowing for sure would drive me a bit crazy]The panzerholz bettered the mahogany armboard in my situation. Its possible that i lost something but that i havent found it out yet. So far so good.

Logenn, Can you say that the only parameter that changed when you compared your panzerholz plinth to the regular plinth was in fact the plinth and only the plinth material? All other parameters remained equal? or was there a new arm? an new mat? , different interconnect? you moved the speakers around a bit? you tube rolled?

Thanks.