2. analog
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Analog experiment

Hi everyone. Some of you will remember my post from a couple weeks back about trying out vinyl. My dealer setup that old AR for me and I listened to it for a while and then listened to the same records on a new Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with a Sumiko Blue Point #2 cartridge. I liked the Pro-Ject better so I took it home for an audition in my system.

I borrowed some basically new LPs from my dealer's collection. Most of them are the 180 gm. "audiophile grade" limited editions. I got U2 War, Eagles Hell Freezes Over, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd DSOTM and REM Document. I was familiar with all these and own the CD counterpart of each album for direct comparisons.

I carefully setup the turntable making sure it was level. My dealer has been selling turntables for decades so I trust the other adjustments. I used the C42 to level-match the outputs of my Sony C333ES SACD player and the Pro-Ject, again for fair direct comparisons.

I listened to each album on its own on the turntable and then I went back and played the Sony in parallel. I switched between the two sources from my listening chair. In this case, I would keep the turntable 40 seconds ahead of the Sony so every 40 seconds I could hear the exact same passage in digital form. Hearing memory is short so I kept the interval short. I also made longer comparisons to be sure of my thoughts.

The bottom line is that the Pro-Ject didn't sound any better than my Sony. They had exactly the same tonality and soundstaging. On DSOFTM in SACD, the Sony was virtually indistinguishable from the turntable. I couldn't believe it. This is the first time I can't hear a reliable difference between two different components.

With other records, the turntable seemed to have a slightly more extended and weightier bottom end. But then the Sony had slightly better definition so it was a wash. After these tests, I see no reason for me to go with vinyl. You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case. The Sony costs about $350 these days.

I am sure some of you will be upset with my decision but I have to say I was excited to try it out and I kept my outlook totally unbiased. I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that. But I don't see any reason to do that now. Oh well!

Arthur
aball
david_berry
211 posts
 
Good experiment Arthur. This is what I envision as part of the audio hobby: trying out different things and relaying the experience.

I just bought a new VPI Scout / JMW 9 tonearm / Dynavector DV20XL cart / Dynavector P-75 phono and have done comparisons with new vinyl and its corresponding SACD version. I like vinyl better - haven't really disected why.

David
jaybo
4,478 posts
 
the blue point #2 (i have one idle) doesn't really make it happen. there are actually better mm's for the same money. that said, the only reason to have different front ends (phono, cd, tuner, etc) is to have access to recordings that are exclusive to that media. this is about buying, listening and collecting music......as for your shoot out, a project with a no.2 competing with a nice sony front end is a big win for the phono.
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hoopster
184 posts
 
I agree with Zargon. I have done the same a/b thing evaluating vinyl and also CD and SACD. It is usually a pain to get the volumes corrected for gain when going back and forth between vinyl and CD/SACD. Even if you think you have done a good job making the adjustments, differences in vinyl and CD/SACD can be elusive in this type of comparison. Lot of factors to consider ie. cartridge, room, how good is your phono section/phono pre, TT setup, arm, the recording, room...the list goes on. But if you listen to vinyl for a couple of hours and then put in the same CDs, I'll bet you will find yourself feeling differently about vinyl. I would rather listen to vinyl and I have a modest rig (AR ES1 modded with AQ arm, Goldring 1042 cart.) I have an Arcam CD23 for CD and Denon 2910 for CD/SACD neither of which are shabby. I have well recorded albums and CDs and some that are not. Bottem line I listen to CD about 60-40 to LPs, out of conveinence. That being said, if you are happy with your CD playback hang in there with it. Vinyl is a pain compared to CD and unless you want to amass records pre 80's don't worry about it, just enjoy your music.
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Arthur,

Your experience matches mine although my experimentations were done in the mid 80's. Analog can produce excellent sound, so too can CD digital. For a given recording one or the other may win out. I could not find a consistent difference to say that one is significantly better than the other (although CD digital seemed more durable and had a lower noise floor - no surface noise. CD digital has the potential for better dynamic range, however, this is rarely exploited on either medium).

If there is a difference then, IMHO, it is dwarfed by the individual differences in recording and mastering. I find CD's much more convenient as I listen to lots and lots of music.

I may have tin ears. ;-)
flyingred
139 posts
 
Arthur, if the ProJect and your Sony are close on 40 second comparisons I would say that the table is fairly well set up.

I would also go along with an earlier post suggesting you just relax and listen to music on the table. I too find I can't listen very long to cd whereas I can (and do) play LPs all night. It's over extended listening that you appreciate the absence of digital artifacts.

Having said that, my advice to someone without an existing vinyl collection is to stick with digital and if you need a new toy, buy a Squeezebox and rip your cds to your computer's hard drive.

Most of the music I enjoy most was released in the 70s and 80s (and earlier in the case of classical) and the cd re-issues were never mastered as carefully, so they are genuinely inferior to the original LPs.
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