Another UPS Horror Story

sorry to hear about your loss.

i think if you've read the numerous other stories here,
you could have avoided the doubling of your misery.

first off, the seller is responsible for getting you the
item in working,non-damaged order. It is not acceptable
for the seller to throw up his hands and say, it's not my
fault

But secondly, and more important, you never should let
the damaged item leave your hands. have the inspection
done at your home by a UPS person. Also be aware, this
person, while he may sympathize with you and appear to be
your advocate, they are likely not the decision maker on
the claim being paid. Also, if my the amazing grace of
god, the claim gets paid, it is the seller who receives
the claims money. So, the jerk, who refused to help you
from square one, now has the broken item , your purchase
money, and the claims money.

once they take the package, it gets really mis-handled
from there. The box it came in as already been
compromised, and they take no steps once in their hands
to change that, meaning further and further damage

i've held the item which gave me time to try to work
things out with the seller, PayPal, and however else---i
let the package go using a Call Tag once things were
resolved.

Since the shipper buys the insurance from UPS he is the insured party and he has to file the claim with UPS, which is why they sent it back to him. Not that that does any good because UPS and other shippers are notoriously bad about paying for damage.

Here is what Audiogon has to say about your situation in the Support Center:

What if an item is damaged in shipping?

If an item is damaged in shipping, you should contact the seller immediately so that a Damage Claim is filed.

***The responsibility of pursuing a Damage Claim is solely with the seller,***

however, you will need to cooperate with the with the seller and the shipping company in any manner requestsed. Often, the shipping company will come back to pick it up, or inspect the package in your home.

•Keep all of the packing materials exactly as you received it.

•Do not attempt to use the item or plug it in, which may result in further damage.

•Do not attempt to disassemble or repair the item unless the seller first agrees.

•Take photos of the item and the packing materials as soon as possible.

If a seller and a buyer cannot agree on a course of action to follow, a Dispute may be filed with Audiogon here.

//////////

It looks like you're going to have to file a Dispute with Audiogon.

"What has brown done for you?" have not heard that one lately,should be "What has brown done TO you" but that is a dead horse that is not going to get up and trot.
First thing,at the sign of significant damage,as in this case,the package should be refused and sent back to the seller,the name on the insurance form,that,as noted above,is the person to deal with the damage.
I think it may be time to consider using Escrow.com,they are partnered with PayPal now and can offer services for items under 5,000$.
Audiogon means well,but when the rubber meets the road your bucks are frozen and what little heat they can apply will not defrost your cash in your direction.
Lesson learned ..... Communicate with your seller and ask for pictures of the packing job and make comments and suggestions to protect yourself.On the sending end...overpack and insulate and use FedEx.Then overpack again and add more reinforcent.So let the "reinforcement be with you".I consider myself lucky on both ends of selling and getting sold to,but this is a profound reminder that your audio dreams can quickly turn into a nightmare especially if your hard earned dollars have been spent and the seller can't act in a responsible manner via a refund.
To close,as I opened,i will again caution against UPS as a transporter and ask what others experience,or thoughts with Escrow.com.My brain still sizzles with the sight of a small FedEx female driver pulling up to the front door and nonchalantly throwing a hundred pound package on her shoulder.I knew how heavy that box was and let her know it is fragile and she will have to carry it at least 75 feet...her response "No problem,we are good" and we were.

Yes, recently had a 55+, female UPS employee, about 5'4", struggle with two 130 pound packages, clearly labeled. Needless to say, at some point, they had been turned upside down and their tops crushed, probably while she struggled with them in my parking lot. A strong, big man would have struggled with them and UPS was out of its mind to have her deliver them in one of their regular trucks.

Shipper should have freighted them but UPS said they could handle it and save him some money. Fortunately, I found replacement cabinets for these discontinued, $12K speakers
so the seller saved himself about $50 shipping and the new cabinets only cost $1400. Oh well, a penny saved...
No pay from UPS, the international seller of $60K multi-unit speakers had "not packed them properly."

This has happened to me before with UPS. I've been told items fall off the loading conveyor going into the plane and, in the instance of an amplifier dropped hard enough to burst its stainless steel chassis, sometimes land flat. You won't even see the damage until you unpack or if really unfortunate, fire it off and it goes up in smoke.

I have found UPS to pay (twice) if the item is packed by one of their shipping stores, with additional insurance, so add 30% to that estimated cost and you may be able to avoid this issue. (but probably not).

"***The responsibility of pursuing a Damage Claim is solely with the seller,***

however, you will need to cooperate with the with the seller and the shipping company in any manner requestsed. Often, the shipping company will come back to pick it up, or inspect the package in your home."

Correct. But you should have never accepted the package in the first place. If you see damage on the box, never accept it until you open it. Yes, I know, UPS isn't supposed to do that. But UPS does a lot of things they're not supposed to do. Sometimes the driver is nice and wants to help out, or he may just be too lazy to drag a heavy power amp or speakers back to the truck. But if you show them where there may be legitimate damage, they always let me open the box. If they don't open the box don't take it. Next time use Fedex Ground. They suck too, but every legitimate claim I ever had, they paid.

"At this point the shipper will have my original payment plus the damaged unit, which might be repairable. Can a UPS claim be appealed? Can a UPS Store be sued in small claims?"

Yes, and you can most likely get your money back. Most people will tell you that its not worth it, for what ever reason they come up with. But, in fact, there's a lot of information about small claims court that the average person just doesn't know. They just assume its like a regular court and base their opinions on something they don't really know about. I would consider filing a claim with both UPS and the seller. Maybe just to UPS first and see if you can get them to write you a check just because they see you're serious. But before you do anything, you need to read one (or both) of these books.

Everybody's Guide to Small Claims Court (Everybody's Guide to Small Claims Court. National Edition) Paperback – March 31, 2014

How to Win Your Case In Small Claims Court Without a Lawyer Paperback – January, 2009

Follow the steps that these books lay out and you should be able to get a 100% refund plus all court costs. Given that UPS is a national company and knows they will probably loose the case, I would be stunned if you actually had to go to trial. But don't take anyone's word for it, just read the book.