Anyone NOT like the sound of VPI?

Madfloyd, I've complained about a similar problem on these forums as well. Specifically, a relatively lightweight tonal balance, the bass doesn't have enough impact or fullness for me.

I'm not ready to give up on my Scoutmaster with 10.5i arm at this point, however. Many on this forum feel VPI's sound fine, so I'm willing to do further work on my setup.

As for the problem, I suspect the relatively low mass of the VPI arms could be part of the problem, you do have to use a fairly high compliance cartridge with these arms, particularly the 9" arms. Changing my 9 arm to the 10.5 arm helped out the bass to some extent, the higher mass of this arm is likely helping here. I also recently added about 40 lbs of lead weight to the Bright Star Big Rock under my tt, this further helped out the bass.

Beyond this, who knows where the problem lies. It could be cartridge alignment, the platter, rubber belt (I changed to thread drive), acrylic platter, tt isolation, cartridge, my phono stage. Every one of these things has been mentioned as possible culprits by audiogon members answering my posts. There are so many variables in tt setups, its difficult to pin it down to any one thing.

I've also heard from some who don't care for the VPI sound, it seems they think the VPI lacks musicality. I wonder if this is a lack of satisfying warmth in the lower frequencies.

I next move will be replacing the Sovtech 12ax7s in my phono stage with Mullards, then a different cartridge alignment with the Mint Lp. If I'm still not there, I will be changing out the capacitors in my phono stage to Mundorf Silver/Golds or VH Audio TFTFs. If the bass is still lightweight after these mods I will be much further inclined to blame the VPI. Still, a better cartridge and the super platter may be needed to complete the setup.

Based on my experience with my VPI to this point, I would have to say the VPI Scoutmaster is not a plug and play unit, its simply not a finished product without all the upgrades. The upgrade path VPI offers makes it easier to get started, but it sure sucks to think you aren't getting all the turntable has to offer without those upgrades. I have a feeling the Scoutmaster is going to end up being at least a 6.5k investment rather than the 2.5k investment I initially thought it would be.

Josephtorres brought up another aspect of Scout ownership that's not been discussed yet. The Scout is VERY dependent on a good platform of some sort to flesh our it's sonic signature IMO. I'd forgotten that when I first set up my Scout and listened to it, it did lack some mid bass weight and disappointed me a bit. At present, I'm using a thick maple platform which totally cured the perceived lack of balance. The Gingko is another route I'd definitely consider. All this said, the Scout still didn't sound bright without a platform. It still sounds like you've not optimized the cartridge for the rest of your system. What sort of phono preamplification and phono interconnects are you using?

Some info about my setup:

- It's sitting on a heavy makeshift platform consisting of several layers of MDF glued and screwed together resting on top of a stereo rack. The rack sits on very spongy carpet on top of a cement floor.

I ordered a Target shelf so I can wall mount it, but my tiny brain finds it hard to believe this will make a significant difference tonally.

I had the turntable professionally setup recently. it does sound much more musical, but it lacks bass. This is ironic, because I have speakers that are way too bass heavy (Aerial Model 9's) in my particular room (soundproofed, retains bass energy). If I play a CD of the same material I play on the TT, it sounds completely different. Tried Steely Dan last night - same thing. I almost benefit from the weaker bass of the VPI because of my speaker issue, but I am going to change my speakers for a pair that is leaner in the midbass ... then I'll really have a problem with the VPI.

I'm using various interconnects (Audioquest, Monster). I'm making sure NOT to use my Nordost (because they typically thin out the bass).

Currently going into a Pro-ject Tube Box SE II (which was also adjusted in terms of jumpers etc) by my dealer.

After the phono stage, it does to a Audio Research REF III.

Amplifiers are Theta Citadels (monoblocks).

Well, I'm not familiar with the Pro-ject so I've got nothing relevant to say about that. The fact that your vinyl rig "sounds completely different" from your cd makes me suspect the cartridge and/or preamp are your problem though. When I play my vinyl rig, I've occasionally had to stop and look up to see whether or not the turntable is spinning because it sounds so similar to my Marantz Sa11S1. From what others have said in past threads, I doubt you're going to be very happy with a target wall mount shelf either unless you replace the mdf shelf with something like a Neuance drop-in replacement. Mdf sounds like mud from my experience under the VPI. I know that it seems hard to believe that the support substrate can have such a substantial impact, you'll just have to try this for yourself and see. Still, I wouldn't let this aspect sidetrack you from the bigger issue, optimizing the phono preamp chain and getting a cartridge that works better with the VPI arm.

Madfloyd,
What speaker were you thinking of changing to? If you don't mind the suggestion, your system seems to be almost tailor made for a pair of Vandersteens. The Quatros and 5As both incorporate powered base modules with room correction EQ. I use the 5As as does Stringreen which may explain why neither of us complain of low frequency problems with our VPI tables. You have a good table(I didn't say the world's best)and should be able to get very good results with it. Audio Research and Theta(citadels in particular) are widely reguarded to be great matches for Vandersteen. Just one idea from one guy who's happy with his system.