Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

The distinction between music and Home Theatre reproduction as it applies to subs is notably expressed here. I used to run previous, smaller sub set-ups much hotter (like +5dB's) when watching movies - as an act of compensation, I'm now aware - vs. when listening to music only. Since I started using a pair of much bigger (20 cf.) tapped horn subs in my system there's no gain-differentiation needed with music vs. HT. Music isn't overpowered by a sluggish bass but is instead more naturally present and organically integrated, while movies have all the visceral force and impact, even potentially intimidating in nature, to truly make the experience felt.

Well-integrating subs IS about pursuing High Fidelity in its truer sense and certainly not like "added ketchup to some kind of gourmet food," but rather about making the intend of gourmet food taste gourmet in the first place. This applies to both music and HT reproduction; when the capacity is properly at hand you won't need "compensation" gain-wise in an HT-system, and it complements music as well. 

phusis:
"Well-integrating subs IS about pursuing High Fidelity in its truer sense and certainly not like "added ketchup to some kind of gourmet food," but rather about making the intend of gourmet food taste gourmet in the first place. This applies to both music and HT reproduction; when the capacity is properly at hand you won't need "compensation" gain-wise in an HT-system, and it complements music as well."

     I completely agree with phusis.  High fidelity reproduction of the bottom two octaves of bass on music recordings, through the incorporation of 2 or more optimally positioned and configured subs in a system, is one of the most effective methods available to obtain near state of the art bass performance that is powerful, fast, smooth, dynamic, articulate, realistic. seamlessly integrated with the main speakers with a sense of effortlessness and naturalness in virtually any room and with any pair of main speakers.
     Those dismissing the effectiveness of the scientifically proven method of utilizing multiple subs in a room/system(see the works of Dr. Earl Geddes, Dr. Floyd Toole and Todd Welki for details) as analogous to pouring ketchup on gourmet food or other tropes, are simply proclaiming their complete lack of knowledge and experience with this method. 
     For those lacking knowledge and experience concerning the effectiveness of multiple subs, I suggest gaining knowledge through online research, gaining experience by auditioning multiple sub bass systems and determining the concept's effectiveness for yourself. 

Tim
       
  

I have not experimented with the SWARM concept but did hear Duke's room at an RMAF (remember when we used to have those :-) a few years back an he definitely had good sound and balanced low end.. I have experimented with subs for two-channel music and surround as I have those two formats integrated into my current main system.  What is current working for me is a pair of Seaton Submersives (active dual opposed 15 inch drivers). They do not have any form of crossover for the model I have. I use a DBX PA-2 drive rack which is a DSP that I use for he low pass crossover (many choices of crossover type), PEQ and RTA.  I run my main speakers fully range and bring on the subs where they start falling off. I use an RTA app on my iphone that gives me 1/3 octave RTA measurements. The DBX PA-II has an iPad app so you can control all the settings remotely. It also has a large number of user configurable presets..so I can have a setting for each speaker I might bring into the system.   The cool thing is you can play with all these settings easily from the listening postion. I stream a pink noise track, look at the RTA on my iphone and play around with crossover points, slopes, gains, etc while
I am listening.. I like to play around with the crossover slope types while playing music with real bass (like Dire Straits - Six Blade Knife) and listen to the impact of making changes.  Do I end up with something that is perfect....no., but I do end up with something I like.  I also strongly agree that subs is not just about adding bass it can transform the spatial aspects of a performance.   For surround I have an XLR switch box going to the two subs...so in surround mode Iet the Surround Pre control all aspects of the subs by routing around the DBX PA2

Hello tellefsen,
     
     It seems like you have figured how to integrate your pair of subs very well into your system.  You may not have experimented with the Swarm concept yet but you certainly have experimented with the multiple sub concept and now have valuable personal experience with its benefits.   Congrats on your adventurous spirit and bass system!

Tim

I just had a mind blowing listening session. Utterly incredible resolution, imaging, spaciousness, holography. Just hard to believe things can sound much better. I don’t think my system is far off from the magico m2. And I was listening to organ music... it was great. I could sense the space and power of organ, the scale.  (This is on NS5000)

BUT THEN...
I turned on my dual 18s. HOLY SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. The soundstage grew enormously. The organ became life like in its scale... it was simply real now. I closed my eyes and I was in a massive church. The subwoofers helped capture the shape of the space and the visceral low growls as the organist played low. For the rest of my session I left my subs on (crossed at about 50-55 hz) and I realized today that I simply love subwoofers and there is no way around it. The weight, gravity and power.. scale in every song i played was mind blowing. And keep in mind the NS5000 is flat to about 25 hz so it does bass very well but the boost in the low end just adds so much to the music. The bass didn’t seem bloated or boomy either to me. It was powerful and fast still. I am sure better and maybe smaller subs might do speed better but the way my system sounds. I could absolutely live with it for life. Only thing I want to do in my new listening room is get another 2x 18s.. and im thinking sealed. Then when ill do is cross the dual 18s at maybe 60 hz and then cross my dual 18 ported at 40 hz so they can fill out the low end and provide an even bass response in the room.

I am just a subwoofer bass guy... I can’t get away from that. I am reminded by my sonja 1.3 demo how i was really disappointed by the bass. It was just utterly lacking. Other audiophiles might not like the sound in my room and prefer the Sonja bass but I love this sound. And rather than spend $500k on Goebel divin majestics... why not spend a bit more on more subwoofers... youll get all the power, impact, scale of the big goebels for a fraction of the price! I think more affordable speakers and a proper sub array is a much smarter option than dishing out millions on speakers that may give you similar bass performance and maybe not even similar. Subwoofers are the key for me for incredible low end and saving money while I am at it!


Lot of my audiophile friends criticize my love of subwoofers... at the end of the day we all have different tastes and this is mine. I doubt ill ever give up my subs. They are amazing.