As to stylus wear, 1000 hours may be an average, but it’s by no means necessary. That’s all the more reason to have a linear tracker.
And an ultra-sonic record cleaner. In the old days I used a VPI 16.5 faithfully. When I read that record groove crud was equal parts fluff, grease, and diamond dust, I realized that it was an ideal grinding compound, ready and able to grind the faces off any stylus. So I went ultra-sonic.
When I went US, a huge amount of crud came out of the grooves - it was quite visible when it settled on the bottom of the tank. Microscopic inspection shows that my post-US stylus is slightly and symmetrically worn after 940 hours. I hope to get a few thousand more. That means, at the cost of my retip, the US cleaner pays for itself and then some. Actually, and then, quite a lot. |
@grgaudio Interesting hypothesis you have there. Damphers ( not dampers??) tested in your lab...:o) |
to Daveyf,
We test damphers in
laboratory here in USA, In Europe and home. There are many instruments to do
testing. Some are simple and we can do this at home. Some are very
sophisticated- we do lab tests.
All lab created diamonds are different quality. Different
polishing quality too. The worst are G from Europe, The best are A from
Japan. There are some in between.
Most of users never understand how stylus reads the
grove and stereo grove in particular. In few words when stylus wears it becomes
more dull and bigger surface/diameter. It does not go as deep in a groove as it
used to and not scanning the vertical groves well. So the more stylus wears-
the more mono you hear. Some report this as dullness, some hear distortion,
some say the cartridge don't sound fresh and musical anymore.
|
@grgaudio Do tell how you test dampers --er.. damphers?
Styluses do indeed have different shapes..configurations, and the cut can have a connection to the length of its life, but that is nothing to do with the quality of the diamond, simply to the wear pattern of the shape.
BTW, there is no conclusive evidence that I have ever seen that actually truly shows wear patterns on the surface of the diamond after x number of hours. Not saying that the stylus does not wear out, but there is no predictable pattern of wear regardless of the shape. |
to Daveyf,
The styluses have different configuration. Conical stylus
has one face. The sophisticated Shibata or Micro Ridge like have up to 32
faces. To mount and align such on a cantilever takes laser beam technology to
get the angles right. When using, any mis- guidance or mis-aligning damages the original
shape quite fast and easy. All styluses diamonds are lab created and polished these days. Also, some cheap styluses were made of ruby/sapphire
like composite or different corundum composites. Sometimes they were good for
just 100-200 hours.
You are more than welcome to believe in long life of damphers
because you have experience and hear it right. We test these with proper
devises, have results and I stand behind my words.
|
@grgaudio Good post, which I agree with mostly. However, I do not agree with your estimates of cartridge life or the fact that a low quality diamond( what is that?) will last less than a high quality diamond. IF you are saying that a superior shape of the stylus will incur less wear through time than an inferior stylus design...maybe. Also, I do not think that your estimates of damper (dampher??) life are at all accurate. Simply due to the numerous variables on how cartridges are a) treated and b) designed and c) subjected to climate conditions. Most cartridges that I know have damper life that far far exceeds three years...assuming that they have not been left in either the freezer or under a heat light, LOL.
Oxidation will occur over time...but again that can take many years to occur...if treated correctly.
OTOH, some of the vintage cartridges that have dried up and worn out decades ago will indeed do one thing...ruin your records! |
normantaylor ,
<!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
Let me put manufacturer's thoughts into this. The subject is
very subjective as I can pun. Most of the responses are based on person's
experience , but the experience usually run into just few items. Being in the
cartridge re-sell and cartridge manufacturing business for 20 years and having
hundreds and hundreds of clients every year I could say that the average
audiophile runs through 3-10 cartridge over the period of serious listening. I
could count on my fingers people who owned more than 10 quality cartridges for
the entire life. People telling truth from their heart based on 3-10 cartridges
experience. Sadly the truth is mis-leading.
Most of analog gurus here ignore few important issues with
phono cartridges.
1. stylus lifespan of high quality diamond is 1000-1200
hours. Low quality 200-300 hours. The distortion starts around 50- 60% of a
lifespan.
2. Dampher life is 6 month to 3 years. Distortion based on
this could start from the hour one all the way to the stone age of dampfer.
3. Oxidation of coils changes the impedance and connectivity
all the time and it not improving the sound over time.
Therefore speaking and comparing vintage cartridges performance is close to believing in voodoo
miracles. The ugly truth behind purchasing phono cartridge is the money you
invested in this are gone. It hurts, but you have to admit it.
What do you have in return- the joy of high quality sound.
The limit is your pocket and your ego.
Manufacturer's hardware expenses to produce entry level and
top of the line cartridge are never more than 10%. Quality control expenses
most of the time is the same. Why the prices
of the same brand has up to 1000% difference? The answer is- research
time and tune work done to make sound improvement. When we launched new Aidas
Rainbow cartridges line we gone through 200+ damping composites just to get the
desired quality, rigidity and sound pattern. It took us close to 18 month of
countless tests and rejections. The generator, the coils material, and
many-many other factors and combinations contribute to the better than before
sound. We are closely examine all new models on the market to see what's good
and what's not. This concerns only real deal High End cartridge manufacturers. There are 2-3 on the market that I can
name. All other produce average quality cartridges that change model names and
prices on a regular basis.
Finally let's get close to the discussion subject.
1. Before going into purchasing a new cartridge ask yourself
why did you buy the one you have now? What was the trigger?
2. Comparing new cartridge sound at any price to your old
cartridge is not relevant most of the time, because you hear different sound
that was originally.
3. If it was great improvement in the past, may be it would
be the same with the old or similar model now without investing more $$.
4. All the review in magazines is just advertising, nothing
more. They are leading you to the brand only. To test the brand is your job.
Unfortunately there is no other way to do this, but to hear it with your own
ears. Spending $30 twice a year to visit shows may save you few thousand. Also
driving 200 miles to a far away show room could save you the same $$.
5. If your gear set up is highly tuned and properly managed
the difference will show right away.
My rule of lost signal is dominant no matter what. If you
loose quality signal because you connect $10K cartridge with .99c shell lead-
you won't get it even you have $100K further in line.
6. Any brand has it's own sound pattern. That's the way
design team wants to hear it. It is their taste, not yours. It will go down the
line from base model to top model. If something bothers you in base model- most
likely it will be persistent further on.
7. If sound pattern of a new entry level cartridge made real
difference - most likely top model will have the same effect with more tunable
mid- upper tones.
8. The devil is in the details. Test the cartridge with the
music you will listen to. If you are up for piano or violin be sure that
your eardrums won't be damaged with some aggressively
sounding but great on the other type of music cartridges.
Every 2 years I publish my personal cartridge grading for
public use. I will do this again in few days. You are more than welcome to
visit these posts along with my web sites
aidasaudio.com
virausa.com
|
Good question. A point of diminishing returns is probably different for everyone because of unique goals.
The OP specified MC cartridges recs. I would suggest also looking at the associated phono stage. MC cartridges are very sensitive to loading and capacitance. It could be that a relatively modest change in a phono stage can yield a significant audible improvement. For example try an external stage to replace an internal stage. Try a SUT (if you haven't before). Even a different phono cable can have a significant impact.
As for cartridges, there is great value to be found in purchasing older/used cartridges then having them rebuilt. Remember that a cartridge is a mechanical device, and it does wear out over time. I chose a Denon 103D and then had it rebuilt to Ruby Level by SoundSmith. I could have spent more but the resulting sound is astonishingly good. This cartridge displaced a Audio Technica AT33ML-occ (2nd from TOTL at one time). Both were mounted into the same arm and table (Linn LP12 / ITTOK LVII) and same phono stages (ARC SP-10 MKII / AI M3a and M3b // Both with and without Cinemag 3440 SUT).
Several variables to consider in answering this question. |
@rauliruegas I think you like to split hairs... please do look up what that means if you don’t already know.
Kandid is made by ScanTech... owners of Lyra, a brand name like I said before. One could say that Kleos is made by ScanTech ... and branded a Lyra.BTW, I never said that JCarr was the designer of the Kandid. |
Dear @daveyf : "
are basically one and the same.... "
are not the same. Scan-Tech makes cartridges for many other companies according each company specs.
Example Audioquest was one of those companies that used Scan-Tech and Linn is another one for several years and Scan-Tech manufacture the cartridges according Linn specs/voicing desires not according J.Carr.
My Akiva made it by ST has not a Lyra like proced sound, is really different as I'm sure the Kandid is different to the Lyra signature models. That the cartridge body be similar to Lyra cartridge does not means the cartridge motor is simlar.
"""
Is there anything you don’t want to correct on these forums ? ""
only when exist a misunderstood or something is way wrong. I think that if you have information that put some " ligth " in a subject that can put " things " with the rigth " scenario " for not have misunderstood by other gentlemans then I think that you have to disclose that information. Obviously that's is up to you do it or not but I think that we all are here and in other forums to help us in between. Don't you think?.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
When your ears no longer hear an improvement!
If this was addressed to me then i think hearing abilities is slightly better at 40 than at 60, so i have plenty of time to check various cartridges. And prior to choose inexpensive vintage MM or MC i owned modern $3k- $5k cartridges. |
Dear @rauliruegas Scan Tech and Lyra are basically one and the same!
Scan Tech is the corp name...Lyra is the brand name. So, like I said before...the Kandid is made by Lyra...or if you prefer by Scan Tech....same folks.
Is there anything you don’t want to correct on these forums?? |
YES! Set-up, set-up, set-up. Get a first class tonearm which is completely adjustable, and set it up carefully, over a few months.
I use two Trans-Fi Terminator air bearing tonearms ($1000 buys the best deal in high end). Easy to set up. Stable. Retain their adjustments.
As for the cartridge, don't forget that some wear a whole lot better than others. And some cost more for a factory retip than others. My Koetsu still looks good after 1000 hours - but when it becomes necessary, the retip cost is ruinous. |
I am reminded of Mikey Fremer's blind test of 8 cartridges a few years ago which you can still find on Analog Planet. He set up sound samples for us to listen to of cartridges ranging in price from just a few hundred dollars for a few MM to over $8000 for an Ortofon Anna. The majority of participants preferred an Audio Technica MM cartridge overall that retailed for about $750 at the time. Later it was revealed that Mikey had inadvertently set the gain wrong or something, which kind of spoiled the outcome, but really only by a whisker. The point is that the differences are not so great between well designed and set up cartridges as we might think, and it is possible to obtain stellar results from modest cartridges if you are meticulous about setup. I happen to own both the $750 cartridge that won Mikey's competition and a Soundsmith Hyperion ($8000) and can tell you for a fact that there is not a great a difference between them. By every account the Hyperion is among the top cartridges in the world. So one answer to your question might be $750.
|
Dear @daveyf : I owned Linn cartridges , the last one was the Akiv.
As Lyra Linn cartridges are manufactured by Scan-Tech not by Lyra.
I never had the opportunity to listen the Kandid but something that worried me about the Linn characteristics design is that ceramic boron cantilever due that ceramic is way resonant in that place.
Lyra Clavis D'Capo came with a ceralloy cantilever, I owned and when I change that cantilever for a boron one the differences for the better was nigth and day.
Lyra knows that and I don't think that could recomend to any one a ceramic/boron cantilever type.
The Akiva is very good performer and I can assume that the Kandid too.
@normantaylor , as the quality level performance increase in a cartridge the improvements in new cartridge designs goes in lower and lower increments but the prices goes higher and higher because when the quality levels is so high any tiny increment in the quality performance levels is an achievement not easy to touch. Needs a lot of research and tests/voicing evaluations and that means time, knowledge and skills to do it to " stay there " and this means too a lot more money for a tiny quality increment..
But all those does not matters if you don't have the room/system quality level performance that can honor that cartridge so high qualityperformance. Of course that that room/system needs a really high resolution levels with extremely low overall distortions and you need very experienced ears not only in audio but in live MUSIC and how it sounds at near field seated position.
Now, you started this thread and other two threads in other forums where in the other forums you were asking for amp or speaker and your budget limit is 12K and now are you looking for a cartridge on the $$$$$ price that can goes over that small budget of what you are looking for? or maybe you already left the speaker or amp for other future times. Who knows.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
Norman, pay attention to atmasphere. He is very right. Learn to set up your tonearm and cartridge correctly. You will do it better than anyone else just because it is your turntable. Do not believe any of the scales on the tonearm. You need a test record, an accurate stylus force gauge, a level, a few tools and patience. It is not rocket science. |
mijostyn
Thanks! Great response to my query. Thanks for the suggestions. Happy Holidays |
The MC-7500 is still on my wantlist.... Save money for something else; MC 7500 and MC 5000 made several convinced owners unhappy they were better than the MC 3000 they had. I also wanted to have better things in Ortofon house (I currently have MC 3000mk2, Rohmann, MC 30 and MC 30 super and I had MC 70 anniversary) but I immediately changed my mind! |
The ability of the tone arm to properly track the cartridge is far more important than what cartridge you have! If anything this is the Achilles heel of LP playback as most people don't have their analog set up properly.
|
Normantaylor, unfortunately cartridges are like ski boots. You can try em on all you want but until you ski on them you have no idea. But, once you have skied on them they are yours. Same holds true for cartridges. Worse, everyone's opinion is purely subjective and based on wildly variable conditions such as arms and set up. So in reality you are on your own. I do look at the reviews and what the reviewers use but mostly I look at build quality and specifications. The best cartridges are using Boron or diamond cantilevers with a very small diamond glued right to the end. This is a very stiff mass saving solution. I'm not buying a cheap aluminum cantilever with a squished end with a huge diamond poked through. All the angles have to be perfect. Compliance and tracking ability are the most important specs. My own experience is that modern low impedance MC cartridges built to the state of the art sound remarkably similar if all their set ups are tuned to 10 Hz. There are excellent cartridges in the 4 to 10 thousand dollar region. Spending above that does not get you much if anything except bragging rights. If you really like the Linn than go for a Lyra. You can certainly not do any better. Ortofon and Clearaudio also make SOTA cartridges. Koetsu's and Air Tight's are over priced for what you get and I own one of each. |
Lewm, it seems there are more differences between the MC'4 digit' Ortofon's than I anticipated. The MC5000 has 0.15mV output. This is the lowest output cartridge in my arsenal, but it's still three times the 0.05mV of your MC2000!
Even the MC5000 is very picky on how it's driven. It's my only cartridge that doesn't work well with SUT's, although Ortofon apparently designed a SUT specifically for this series. I have two SUT's (but not that Ortofon), both with 30dB gain and in both cases there's considerably hum. But it's totally silent and very much 'alive' with Boulder 1008 phono amp with 70dB gain. So I can imagine the MC2000 will be even more demanding to drive properly. But if you manage to do that, I'm sure the results are spectacular.
|
Chakster and Edgeware, I own both an MC7500 and an MC2000. Just recently I was able to borrow a current-driven phono input for the MC2000; prior to that none of my phono stages had enough gain to make the MC2000 "live". And I don't own, nor ever have owned, an SUT. Anyway, it would take a very high turns ratio to deal with the .05mV output of the MC2000. Now, with current drive, I can really hear the MC2000; I find it to be superior to the MC7500. In fact more than one of my other cartridges is preferred to the MC7500. This has made me wonder about stylus condition, so I am not leaping to any conclusions on the performance of the MC7500. But the MC2000 is fantastic when properly amplified.
|
When your ears no longer hear an improvement! |
@rbstehno
Normantaylor-creating a thread like this will get you a mix of people that don’t want to spend any amount of money on audio pieces like cables and cartridges or people that think their $100 piece is a giant killer. Some used high-end cables are not expensive, sometimes people selling their cables for -70% of retail price. So $100 secondhand cable can be good too. Skilled in soldering can see how good is the phono cable, here i want to mention Zu Audio for their great cables, well build and good sounding compared to much more expensive cables.
If you have a nice tt with a $8k tonearm, you won’t be using a $500 cartridge.
Then look at Halcro's system and his collection of vintage MM cartridges. I am happy to use $500 cartridge on my $5k tonearm if this cheap cartridge is able to give me what i like, and the Garrott P77 was one of them. I think this is great idea, who said you have to pay $3k for a cartridge? I paid actually, so this is not about the money, it's about satisfaction. It's about the music after all. Some of the most involving cartridges are not the most expensive ones. Life is not so simple, everyone can make their own research in cartridges, so many of them around from different manufacturers/designers, different era, etc ... quality is not primary related to the price, they are all high quality, but we like some of them better than others for some reason. If I was searching for a high budget cartridge, I would make sure that you have a tonearm and phono preamp that can support such cartridge and then go listen if possible to cartridges that will work in your system. True, very important. |
$3879.00 after that its diminishing returns.Good luck though. |
@chakster,
Yes, this was also designed by Matsudeira San. The specs are very similar, although the latest MY Sonic Lab models have somewhat higher output and even lower impedance. Before his tenure with Audiocraft he was responsible for the Entre EC-3, another great sounding cart. More recently he also designed the Air Tight PC-1 series.
No, I only have first hand experience with the MC-5000. But I do understand that this whole series was quite outstanding, so I should have mentioned the MC-2000 and 3000 as well. The main difference between models was the choice of stylus/cantilever (Replicant100 stylus and sapphire cantilever in the case of the MC-5000). The MC-7500 is still on my wantlist....
|
Normantaylor-creating a thread like this will get you a mix of people that don’t want to spend any amount of money on audio pieces like cables and cartridges or people that think their $100 piece is a giant killer.
Money isn’t necessarily the critical factor in determining which cartridge will be best for you. If you have a Music Hall turntable, you will be using a few hundred $$ cartridge. If you have a nice tt with a $8k tonearm, you won’t be using a $500 cartridge.
If I was searching for a high budget cartridge, I would make sure that you have a tonearm and phono preamp that can support such cartridge and then go listen if possible to cartridges that will work in your system. With analog, system synergy is very important, probably more so than 1 piece by itself
|
Audiocraft AC-03 (currently MY Sonic Lab) @edgewear
Interesting, i did not know they are from the same designer. Ortofon MC-5000/7500
Did you compare those to MC2000 ? |
Halcro certainly doesn't need me in his defense, but this was not the point of his investigation if I understand him correctly. Of course comparing cartridges through such limited digital playback method is not representative of their sound under ideal circumstances, but it does make very clear that there is no generic quality difference between vintage and modern systems.
This has also been my experience and I believe it is something chakster agrees with as well. But of course the caveat will always be system synergy, without which even the best and most ludicrously priced cartridges will likely disappoint.
So to add to your study here are some more suggestions: Dynavector Karat Nova 13D, Victor MC-L1000, Ikeda 9 Rex, Sony XL-88D, Audiocraft AC-03 (currently MY Sonic Lab), Ortofon MC-5000/7500 and Miyabi Standard (or Mark Levinson MLC-1 and Krell KC-100/200 equivalents). These are all top level systems from the 20th century that can still be found - with a little perserverence and/or luck - for $2000 or less.
I have compared these carts in my own system against my long time reference, Van den Hul Colibri XPW African Blackwood Grenadille. This is one of those Uber cartridges, being the former top model with platinum coils that retailed for $8k, years before the introduction of the current Stradivarius Signature model.
They all sound terrific and on the same high level, just with different flavours. Finding the right one(s) and making some discoveries along the way has been a fascinating journey for me. If this sounds interesting to you, you're in for quite a ride. Have fun!
|
@normantaylor. Price and cartridge desirability are not necessarily connected, IMO. What has been mentioned above is certainly very true. A lot of the results will be highly dependent on the ancillary gear and room. Another variable is set up expertise. For example, with Lyra cartridges, any number of differing opinions can be had... because the set up was not as exact as this line demands.. resulting in naysayers who attribute what they hear to the cartridge and NOT the real issue... a faulty, or less than exact set up!
Is there a “sweet spot” in cartridge design and price point... probably depends on your musical expectations and other biases. Personally, I think your Kandid and it’s sister... the Kleos,are probably about there.IMHO.
|
With all my respect to our Halcro i would never chose a cartridge based on other people system by listening to it over youtube mp3 sound video link. It may help a bit, but i think you can also go to the wrong direction if your reference is his (not your) system and mp3 file recorded with a mic in his untreated room. If this way of choosing a cartridge could be the best them life of audiophiles could be much easier. His cartridge in your system will be completely different and it depends on your tonearm, phono stage, your speakers and your room. Also your personal preferences in sound. However, he’s got some very nice cartridges indeed like many of us. Regarding the internet surfing you can listen to Kenrick Sound online and i bet you will like all his speakers and digital playback from iPod, lol. The reason is his multi-thousand dollar microphone. Everything is just great in his video, but in reality it can be different. |
edgewear
Fantastic reference on the Halcro Hear my Cartridges thread. Crazy chock full of data! Thank you. |
chakster
Wow. Thanks for taking the time. I have some studying to do! |
I disagree that price has Nothing to do it. It just doesn't have everything to do with it which I recognized prior to posting. There is absolutely nothing in cartridge design that can cost $5k or $10k, some cartridge manufacturers selling their new models even for higher price. This is what i mean, their price tag is just their decision to serve small group of reach people. That's it. I don't want to say their products are bad, some of them are very nice, but the price is overestimated for marketing reason only. I'm impressed with your experience, and suggestion to look for older makes when analog was in its prime, but you offer no suggested leads. A little help...?
All exotic cartridges with the most expensive cantilevers, diamonds, special cartridge body ... etc ... are already made in the 80's. Even the rarest of them in NOS condition are still under $2k max and they are amazing. The reason why you or me are willing to change a cartridge is the sound flavor that is the most pleasant for our ears in our system/room. If you can't find the most involving $800 cartridge then maybe the problem is not the cartridge, but something else in the system. Because i know many cartridges in this price category that just perfect and better than my ex $3k or $5k cartridges. But i have many tonearms and a few phono stages to experiment with cartridges on two turntables with 4 tonearms. Also i like MM and MI cartridges better than most of the MC cartridges. If you need an example of vintage LOMC then look for Fidelity-Research FR-7fz or Miyabi for heavy tonearms. If you want unique design then Victor MCL10 (direct couple), Ikeda 9 III (cantilever less model)... On the cheaper side there are Dynavector Karat 23RS (Ruby cantilever) and KARAT 17D2 (Diamond cantilever), Klipsch MCZ-10 Ruby ... If you want to spend less with stylus replacement option (that you can change by yourself) then definitely vintage MM like Audio-Technica AT-ML180, Stanton 980 or SC-100 WOS, Pickering XSV-4500 and 7500. Also Grace LEVEL II with Ruby, Sapphire or Boron cantilever (they made so many optional styli). Victor X1II is another killer ... P.S. Some of the reasonably priced new LOMC are Miyajima (several models) and Audio-Technica ART-9 |
Mayoradamwest
Your point is well taken! |
Millercarbon
I understand your point, but there is usually a correlation between quality and price. I know its not a given,and it's certainly all relative. But, regardless...
You are a guru on this site. I am a novice. I am fascinated with your suggestion to move to a "fixed coil." That doesn't sound anything like "moving" coil or magnet. This is a third category I am unfamiliar with. |
Daveyf
Great to know that Kandid is sourced by Lyra. Otherwise I feel "understood" from your response.
Any suggestions on the highest price point to reach where thereafter there is only micro (if any) increase in performance? |
Chakster
Thanks for the response. I disagree that price has Nothing to do it. It just doesn't have everything to do with it which I recognized prior to posting.
I'm impressed with your experience, and suggestion to look for older makes when analog was in its prime, but you offer no suggested leads. A little help...? |
Your Kandid is a very good example of a cartridge that is at the forefront of cartridge technology. The Kandid is sourced from Lyra and employs their new angle technology. As such, it is more advanced than just about any cartridge on the market that does NOT utilize this tech, IMHO. The fact that you were able to hear the difference is telling and does not surprise me. Many far more expensive cartridges are on the market with motors that are essentially designed forty or more years ago! Same innards as far cheaper models, but in most cases with simply different body materials. The fact that the motor is ancient in design and that the designer is relying on a body change is where the problem begins, IME. While it is true that body designs do have some ability to change the sound, IME utilizing the same old motor and charging a ton more $$ for it is not that impressive. Add to that fact some of these folks are using a cheap old aluminum cantilever as well...and I believe that one really only needs to use one’s ears and have an open mind to determine where the values truly lie. IMHO. |
Based upon what the AudioTechnica OC-9 MKIII does for $500. And what the AudioTechnica ART-9 does for $1000. I would love to hear what the AudioTechnica ART-1000 does for $5000.
Frank |
There is no price point. Not for cartridges, not for anything. You can spend a million and have crap, or a thousand and have amazing.
From where you are now the next biggest incremental improvement will probably be going from moving to fixed coil. Soundsmith Hyperion should do it. |
forget these people giving specific numbers or being a buzzkill. The reality is it depends on the complete system. For instance, it’s possible to go from 1k to 5k and hear a huge difference and also possible to hear no difference. It depend on the TT, arm, phono stage, preamp, amp, speakers, cables, etc. it all needs to work together. I certainly heard a huge difference from 5k to 10k but I don’t know that everyone’s system is as revealing. (Which is totally ok. Get a cart that matches the rest of the system) |
The price has nothing to do with the quality, the more important is the knowledge about cartridges, people behind the design of certain MC and their philosophy. Tonearm/cartridge match, your phono stage capabilities. Don't forget that heyday of analog technologies is definitely not today! Any top quality cartridge designed in the 80's will cost less and will give you more than many overpriced new units. Even $1000-2000 is very expensive for a cartridge, but at this price it's not a problem to buy something outstanding. Phono cartridges at $5k - $10k are made for reach people, once you will damage such cartridge you will understand why they must be avoided. I'm pretty sure that buying such cartridges is pointless until you will investigate why so many knowledgeable audiophiles prefer some killer vintage MC from well known designers at lower prices on used market. It can be 5 different cartridges for the price of 1. I ended up with more than 20 different cartridges instead of a few very expensive new ultra high-end units i owned in the past. The experience with classic high-end is much more important, some of my favorite cartridges are not the most expensive, but i love the sound i can hear with them. |
Or something else at this price point or below that! In any case, your choice will strongly depend on what tonearm you use. I believe the Miyajima likes one with a high mass. For around half the price of the Miyajima you can get a Phasemation PP-300, which is a serious overachiever at its price. But again, a fairly high mass tonearm is required.
If you dare to go 'previously used', you can get away with even less. I have several cartridges that cost me less than $1000 that can easily compete with current top level systems. Don't let anyone tell you those MC's at $10k are on a quality level previously unattainable. It just ain't so. Halcro has devoted a whole thread on this, called 'Hear my cartridges'. Very educational!
|
Get a Miyajima mc for around $3K and stop worrying! Spending more is just burning cash! |
I would say the $2k range. I would also say cartridges in the $2k range are capable of far greater performance than imaginable with the right gear. Spend your $ on non-wear items. |
|
IMO the arm/cartridge setup has to be spot on to get any more quality after $3k.
Sound quality is very subjective anyway.
|
