Audio Forums, On-line Store Fronts, and the Art-of-Deception


I have absolutely no problem with dealers on Forums in general; in fact, I think they perform a very important role in providing information to buyers about their product and insights about the competition. The key is to maintain full disclosure and an environment that encourages open discourse.

However, I am curious as to whether other members of our hobby have observed "supposed" Audio Forums that in reality are nothing more than a store-front for the Forum owner's equipment dealership which, in turn, uses business practices established to cloak the owner's profit objectives to appear as unbiased forum commentary. Do others feel this way or am I seeing things wrong?

I see the approach going something like this:

1) Start an Audio Forum with a few colleagues to help with the scheme;
2) Have the owner run large amounts of audio gear through their room for very short auditions to create the "appearance" of a knowledge-base to be used, in turn, to create the "appearance" of credibility regarding the advice offered by the Owner on the forum;
3) Have the Owner's colleagues play the role of shills, cheering the Owner's advice and the unsuspecting member's purchases from the store-front, as the Owner goes about denigrating the product he doesn't sell and lauding the product he does; 
4) Run the Forum in a manner that immediately quashes anyone who challenges the absurdity of the Owner's comments by shutting down threads and banning all challengers to the absurdity under the guise of keeping the forum a friendly place to exchange objective views.

I obviously consider this business model to be.....(well I won't use the words I am thinking). I would like to say, however, I do find humor in the ignorance of the approach strictly as a commercial enterprise.  

Sadly, I believe these types of business practices are often used on less sophisticated customers in today's retail world, but high priced audio gear is typically purchased by fairly astute individuals. As such, the model I describe above is the opposite of what an intelligent business person would develop to serve a sophisticated customer base. Yet we see this kind of nonsense employed in an attempt to sell sophisticated products to sophisticated people.

Maybe it just shows brains, business acumen, and ethics go hand-in-hand.

In the mean-time, a word of caution to all those fellow hobbyists looking for an objective advice on line; it is more important than ever to remember the time-tested cliches:

--caveat emptor
--follow the money
--things are not always as they appear

and so on.






wattsperchannel
wattsperchannel OP
81 posts
05-25-2016 5:41pm
"geo, Dude get a clue. A shill acts in a deceitful way screwing the unsuspecting buyer through a con."

An enthusiastic audiophile can sometimes appear to be a shill. He praises the device or cables or whatever, even over praises it.  So, there’s frequently no discernible difference between an enthusiastic audiophile and a shill. But the enthusiastic audiophile is not shilling. If you perceive someone is shilling a product you can always ignore the post, one supposes.
Precisely the point. A shill is a con dressed as an enthusiastic audiophile. This discussion is about the former. You keep reverting to the later. To what end? 
I'm curious, because the OP clearly hinted which forum he was (mainly) referring to.

And if I got the hint correctly, the owner of that forum makes it very clear that he's an audio dealer. So the situation there doesn't seem very sneaky to me.
sw,

Yes I am not aware of any owners that don’t disclose themselves as dealers. That is not my point and I am sorry if I gave that impression. Its about the way the forums are run as described in points 1-4 in my OP.  Its just not cool IMO and I long for a more hassle free way for hobbyists to share views without the crud.
I think the 'super' shills are fairly obvious to spot. You will note that 428 of their 456 posts on Audiogon are on one thread dedicated to Brand X. Where Brand X is the best thing in the Universe, and music never existed before Brand X came along.
I can think of at least 3 members right off the bat, primarily cable related. Where the cables are so incredibly good that you don't even need electronics or speakers to enter 'heaven'.

Yeah, they are irritating, but after a while the regulars find them amusing. I'll read them, just like the funny papers. Sure a few newbies will be scammed along the way, that's part of the initiation process.

However, some shills can sometimes be disguised as overly-enthusiastic audiophiles. Again,  time and experience is the only teacher. There are only a handful of members who I know from experience over the years, whose opinion I hold in high regard. Most of these gentleman I chat with offline as well.

Sure, a world were everyone were honest and could be trusted would indeed be a wonderful world. I think that could be said for any avenue though, politics, cars, boats, relationships, etc.
I believe that deceit is a common human trait though, and has been bred into the human DNA. You can find deceit going back in history to the Trojan horse, probably even earlier.
I believe any attempt to eliminate common human traits will be an unsuccessful exploit. Human instincts will always win.