AUDIO SCIENCE REVIEW and $50 to spend.........

@ozzy

Why are you avoiding the question? You are now referencing my previous comments, but not my equipment list. My question concerned what you wrote.

You asked me to list my equipment. When asks why, you told me that my equipment list helps you understand why I am (to use your incorrect characterization) " so negative on the benefits of equipment upgrades. And why you are so close minded about listening vs measurement tests."

So...please...explain HOW my equipment list helped you reach that conclusion.

That’s what you wrote. I’m asking for you to explain.

What’s in my equipment list that supports your conclusion?

Are you avoiding this question because it turns out I don't listen exclusively via cheap "Chi Fi" gear? ;-)

prof,

It’s not a conclusion just an understanding.

Look back at what you have already posted early on in this thread. You have tried this or that and you conclude they don’t matter. Sort of like the Audio Science guy. .

Here is what YOU wrote:

"For instance since I know some audiophiles who have expensive cables sometimes if I’m in a pinch I borrow from them. For a while I had interconnects costing over $4,500/pair in my system (and well reviewed). Double checking specs with the ASR folks I replaced them with $50 regular pro-grade cables.

There isn’t an iota of sound/detail or anything missing in replacing those expensive cables. What a bummer if I thought I had to spend that type of money on cables...."

How open minded is that? Have you tried ALL cables? What about room acoustics, or even your own hearing?

Well, I think the measurements may be a starting point, but not the only critera. Measures good, sounds bad?

ozzy

ozzy,

Ok, you still won't explain how my equipment helps explain why I have the view you think I have.

This happens literally every time I get the demand "list your system!"  If I report being skeptical of cable differences the response from at least some is always "either your hearing isn't good enough or your system isn't good enough to hear the differences other people OBVIOUSLY hear."

And when I list my system it always goes to radio silence....because I've owned plenty of great gear.   In fact I recently had my friend over, an audio reviewer, to listen to my Joseph speakers which recently arrived from being upgraded to the "graphene 2" version.  I've dialed them in very nicely - the detail, transparency, soundstaging, imaging...is just wild.  My reviewer pal was totally blown away, like in shock, shaking his head saying "how did you DO this?"    To put that in context, he has been reviewing since the late 90's or so, currently he's got in $65,000 Estelon speakers for review, hooked up to tens of thousands of dollars worth of Nordost and other high end cabling, conditioning etc.   Yet my system....using "mere" belden speaker cabling and mostly cheap interconnects blew him away.  Which didn't surprise me because I get to hear extremely expensive systems all the time, and I know how mine competes.

So any implication that my system isn't worthy of hearing sonic differences betweeen cables is barking up the wrong tree.  (And audiophiles with far less capable systems claim to hear cable differences, so it can't just be a You Need An Incredible Most People Can't Afford system to hear cable differences).

So I presume the fact you know my equipment is good stuff is why you've avoided directly answering my question.   Until you answer my question, it's fair to presume that my equipment list does not, in fact,  help justify your (mis) understanding of my position at all.

You have tried this or that and you conclude they don't matter. Sort of like the Audio Science guy. Measurements are everything. 

I have been significantly more nuanced in my conclusions.  That's why I bothered explaining them in the first place.  You can either engage with what I write...or ignore it but then we are just left with strawmen, which never helps any conversation.

ozzy,

If I found the sound of my system to be just as good with the cheap cables, why wouldn't I be happy I didn't need to spend extra money on the expensive ones?

And...Why are you ignoring this:

prof: As to cables: I always try to be careful not to make some broad claim based on my personal experience. So for instance I blind tested Shunyata cables against off the shelf cheap AC cables. Thought I heard a difference sighted listening. Couldn’t tell them apart under blinded conditions. Do I therefore say "my own blind test proves AC cables don’t make any sonic difference?" Of course not. No person familiar with the scientific method should make that mistake. Rather, it’s useful for my own purposes, and if someone else cares to use my report as a data point in their own

view, that’s up to them.

Likewise regarding any cables. I don’t propose that not hearing cable differences in my system, or anywhere else, means "no cables make sonic differences." I AM however, I think, rightly skeptical based on the nature of claims made about cables - many of which people knowledgeable in electronics theory point out as highly suspicious - and the nature of how those claims generally are made (audiophiles claiming to hear differences, when I know both from science, and from personal experience, how our perception can be fooled). So I wait for stronger evidence.

Note though, that if many here think that they are seeing an "objectivist" suggest from their blind test that cables don’t make a sonic difference, they will leap on the objectivist for illegitimately drawing such general conclusions from their experience.

And yet all the time we see people here saying "Cables make a difference! I know that because I’ve done the tests in my own system!" But these generalizations are immediately glossed over because, well, that’s the going bias in forums like this.

Are you looking to understand my view...or just look for gotchas?

prof,

I didn’t read all of your long replies. But when I read or hear someone spouting about how cables don’t matter it is usually from someone who has a very, let’s just say, a starter system.

The components you have listed however should be good enough to appreciate the benefits of upgraded cables. So that is a question.

So, either you have not tried quality cables, or something is amiss in your set up. But I guess if your happy with what you got, enjoy it.

Just don’t push the ASR crap on me. Sound quality matters not measurements.

ozzy