B&K and Martin Logan Theater i


I have a Laurier Odyssey entertainment center. I have placed my theateri on the very top instead of the bridge above the t.v., so my wife can use it for display. Once I got all of the speakers hooked up this weekend, I tried watching a couple of movies. The front L&R, effects, and sub were great, but the dialog from the center was less than
desirable. It sounded like the speaker was in a box--muddy, echoing, and dialog was not understandable most of the time.
Now, I have angled the theater down toward the listening position. It was shooting strait forward to begin with--over my head. It is better, but in my opinion it needs to be more crisp and clear. Especially, for a $2500 center channel speaker. I don't ever want to say "what did they say" during a movie again!!!!!
Does anyone have advice for tweeking my theateri using my B&K 507 avr w/ ref 3220 amp?
Music sounds really nice from the center I think! I have listened to 3 dvda disks--Dianna Krall, Look of Love; Eagles, Hell Freezes Over; and Manheim Steamroller, House of Mouse. Seamless integration with the rest of the system. On the other hand, the two DTSES movies I have tried just sound like crap--Seven & Osterman Weekend. I have played with room equilization, notch filters, and angling it down. How can music sound so good, and a movie sound like they are in a cave? Voices have echoes and they cut in and out--very difficult to hear. The speaker must be fine if music sounds so good. I need help with set up through my 507. I want audio from a movie to be crisp and pure. I want the actors to be in the room talking to me!
rynopr
First (and likely not most importantly however) those movies, I remember didn't have the best dialog mixes on DVD. I own SEVEN and do remember that.in
However, as being that many movies(if not most) offer somewhat of a "boxy center channel mix" (due to editting, dubbing, mixing, and remixing, etc), you can expect less than transparent quality comming from the center. That said, if your system balance, your level matching, your speaker placment set up, your overall calibration and frequency response and sub levels and acoustics are all off, you'll have a much COMPOUNDED PROBLEM with DIALOG INTELLIGIBILITY!!!!
MOST PEOPLE, even those using higher end-resolution speakers, get poor results because all the factors mentioned (compounded by POOR SET UP/bad balance and frequency response issues) above add up to too many sonic challenges thrown into the mix! It's WAY TOO EASY TO HAVE BASS TURNED UP TOO HIGH, and/or too BOOMY AND PEAKY, which will inevitably help DROWN OUT THE MIDRANGE AND TREBBLE!...believe it!
MOST PEOPLE have that "UP AND DOWN ON THE VOLUME" PROBLEM,such as you're experiencing! Loud passages have you "cranking down the volume", and soft passages with difficult dialog have you "pushing up the volume". THIS IS MAINLY A "SYSTEM BALANCE PROBLEM"! (the reason system tweaking, calibration, acoustics, flat frequency response and level matching are all critlcal!!!.)
Most people think you just buy expensive gear and it sounds wonderful!...not hardly. That's why you need people who know what they're doing for WORLD CLASS RESULTS...basically, it takes years.
Another reason "Theater speakers" are so effective for, well, home theater! They're made for pressence, dynamics, and dialog intelligibility and detail. They're not made for sounding "pretty and transparent" often!(not of critical importance for movie mixes in the end).
You can however fix much of your issues, and help difficult(yes a bit boxy) dialog problems from your center. Start by checking frequency response(speaker and seating placment factors), speaker levels and matching(between them), acoustics, etc(is your speaker to close to the ground, other reflective reinforcment, boundaries, etc?...also, is there a table or reflective surface between you and the speaker?...if up high, what's the ceiling like?...anything to break up relections up there?)
It's all a BALANCING ACT! Lots of factors influence the results. Get em right, and you'll not care about all the boxy mixing that is inherent in the center!(note: even at movie theaters the dialog is a bit boxy, due to mix).
All great systems/setup's offer very HIGH DIALOG INTELLIGEBILITY! After all, the center is critical for anchoring the movie, indeed! Start with one thing at a time.
Otherwise, your best bet is hiring a pro to get your money's worth out of your investment.
It's been proven a gillion times that you can spend money having a pro do it right, spend less of the gear, and you'll get infinitely better results most often even!
There's no replacment for experience.
Good luck
P.S.,...the $2500 Logan center is "beamy", (design nature) and you must aim it towards your ears!!!!. If not, comb-filtiering and "roll-off" will further kill your cause!!!!!
I live in FL., so I have a typical FL. style house. our "great room" has a huge sliding glass door onto our patio. The kitchen is directly behind it with a half wall seperating, except where the fridge is, there it is encased by a full wall. The back wall in the kitchen comes to a peak at about 12' feet. I sent in my pictures and information to martinloganowners.com, so I guess they will be showing up there in the next month? I will post here to let you know, so you can take a look.
I have now moved it from the top of the unit to the bridge and I have angled it down toward the listening position even more. I am continuing to play with room equilization. We watched Chronicles of Riddick last night. It was better. I cut back on the volumes of the sides, backs, and sub. I have set the center louder while the rest are softer. I am getting there, but still would be open to whatever else you can think of.

Thank you
I had the same problem with a set of RBH T-1's, where L/R speakers were wonderfully dynamic and transparent but the center was dull and lifeless, very muddy dialog. My set up was same as yours, with the center on top of a shelf above my TV. The answer for me was a center channel speaker stand, it was expensive ($150), as each speaker weighs 100 lbs, but it holds the speaker angled up towards the sweet spot about 9" off the ground...

My heavens, what a difference!!! Dialog, music, TV soundtrack, it was as though a blanket had been ripped off the speaker, all is now very clear. Before, I had my center 3-5dB hotter than the other channels, now I can hear and appreciate surround effects much better. A couple of sources for the stands are:

www.racksandstands.com

www.standsandmounts.com

www.dynamichometheater.com

Hope this helps,

John
By placing your speakers near room boundaries (the ceiling and front wall) and objects you've boosted the lower frequencies and introduced early reflections that confuse things. You also have them above furniture and people that will limit the sound bouncing off the back wall.

Using speaker stands a good distance (a couple feet will help but more is better) from anything does wonders for speakers designed for placement in free space. Frequency response is more uniform, the early reflections will be delayed and reduced in level, the ratio of direct to reverberant sound will increase...

I use short Sound Anchors center channel stand about 3' off the screen wall when running a center and have the mains about 4' out from the front wall and 2.5' from the side walls.
I guess the simple answer then is placing it on the floor, or on a stand and aiming it up instead of having it up high and aiming it down.