Bel Canto Ref 1000 vs. Spectron Musician III Mk 2

Ckoffend,

"Michael_moskowich... The problem with your statement is that no such posting in your thread history confirms this statement about inquiring about Spectron amps... "

#1 Below is the thread I started about two years ago when I was searching for THE amplifier for my Watt/Puppy 8 (today Sasha) where I did inquired about Spectron:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1239382999

#2 My point was (snd still is) very simply - there are always people who like and dislike anything under they sky. You got to try!!! I did and then I started to build the system around my Sasha+Spectron and I am immensely happy.

You do whatever you want - just don;t lie about my postings

Mike

"Sorry Audiozen, the Class D amp has been around long before 1968! Not knowing the age of your Godfather and perported "inventor" of Class D Amps, my guess is that he may have been an infant at best when Class D amps were first invented "

Ckoffend,

Spectron Audio claims tot he contribution to class D amplifier as following (from their web site):

=========================================
Historical Prospective
------------------------
from Sound & Vision "50 Greatest A/V Innovations: The most revolutionary products & technologies of the past 50 years" January 2008

"Digital Amplifiers:
Going back to the Infinity SWAMP 1 of the mid-1970s, digital amps have had a checkered history, but they seem finally to have turned the corner in terms of reliability and performance. Highly efficient and cool-running, they promise to play a bigger role in the future."

At that time Spectron's President John Ulrick was president and co-founder of Infinity Systems, famous for its pioneering development of the combination of the servo woofer with the electrostatic speaker. He introduced SWAMP-1, the first commercially available class D amplifier, into the hi-fi audio world at CES 1974 - exactly as credited above by the Sound & Vision.
=======================================================

Not more not less. If "Sound & Vision " could acknowledge their work as one of 50 greatest A/V innovations so can I

You disagree? Fine, we all can live with it - just don;t distort the MEANING of Audiozen post.

Mike

"Come on!! As everyone knows, circuit wizard John Ulrick
founder of Infinity, built the first class D amp back in
'68 and put in a Infinity active subwoofer. Brilliant!!"

The first class D amplifier was built long before this (a simple google search will provide the details and history), I don't know how letting the facts get in the way is distorting the meaning of a proclaimed factual statement?

Your post of 2 years ago, which you kindly provided the link to, and which I did read prior to my past posting review. As your OP stated, you were inquiring about the color of the faceplate of Spectron amps.

My questions, the only points of importance to me are laid out at the end of my post. It is the answers to these Qs and points of interest that I (and possibly others) are interested in. If I were not considering a Spectron amp, I would not spend my time on such a forum thread.

My experience in garnering impressions of equipment in terms of performance is that often people that have owned and then sold equipment can be the best at addressing the performance of said equipment. Unfortunately it is observed often on this site and other forums that current owners always feel their present equipment is the "best". Is this due to pride of ownership, self-justification, blind belief, reality? Obviously, if its reality then its great, but all too often this is not the case!

A prior owner has the nice ability to remove many of the interfering emotional aspects of reviewing the equipment previously owned. It is always especially nice to talk to or learn from people that have sold a piece, only to greatly regret it later or even those that haven't regretted it. Every item has its strengths and weaknesses, those of us considering a piece want the ability to weigh them against each other. Like you (Michael), I own Wilson speakers and love them. Have looked for years to try to find something I like better (as I recognize there are flaws in the Wilsons). In the end, I keep ending up back with Wilson speakers, knowing their strengths and weaknesses vs. other tried speaker's stengths and weaknesses. While I love Wilsons, it does not mean they are for everybody, nor would I recommend them to everybody. Does that make them bad? No, of course not. I knew this when buying my first pair, but I also felt I understood the S&W and made my decision based on undertanding both.

I am only looking for similar feedback on the Spectron amps. To me, it is a logical approach (as long as I recognize that such feedback is only other's opinions).

It does concern me that anybody who says anything not glowing toward spectron amps get's called out. Their input is just as important as an extremely small group of voiciferous supporters/promoters.

Getting back on topic - for the past 6 months I have owned a Bel Canto Ref 500m (which has been getting a lot of good reviews - and is the next generation higher bandwidth ICE module compared to the 1000m).

I have tried these on Triad Gold Monitor speakers (which are 4-ohm speakers) , and on another system using B&W N804's.

In both cases, I was getting a similar sound with the Bel Canto - it was smooth and noise free - but smooth to the point that is was slightly artificial sounding. Over the 6 month period I tried with my various interconnects, power cables, preamp, etc. to optimize it - but it just never sounded as good as my old Simaudio Class A/AB amp. Not having the same bass drive strength as the Simaudio was something I could live with, but the plasticky sound just started driving me nuts over the 6 months I had them. Supposedly they take that long to break in, and they did admittedly get better bass and treble during that time, but the plasticky sound never really changed.

The only reason I switched to Class D in the first place was for heat reasons -my new house had a semi-enclosed cabinet so I had no choice. I should also mention that I had tried some other Class D amps - including the Wyred, the Pioneer Receiver, etc. - all with similar issues (Bel Canto sounded the best among these though).

This December, I decided to give Class D one final last try with the Spectron - I grilled them about their return policy - - I really had enough with the whole Class D thing and if this thing didn't sound just right I was planning on shipping it back immediately, and going back to Class A or AB - regardless of heat!

Well to my pleasant surprise - as soon as I plugged in the Spectron - it sounded "normal". It actually had many of the characteristics of the Simaudio - a strong sound - like it was totally in control of the speakers. Strong bass, full midrange, good treble, with nothing weak nor nothing strongly accentuated. Very neutral sounding. Also, fast transient attacks / high speed (similar to a zero global feedback Class A amp), But most important it lacked the "plasticky" sound that was driving me nuts with the Bel Canto.

But a friendly warning - I made the mistake of trying out the amplifier in monoblock mode. The sound really opened up and I could hear backgrounds in recordings that I had never heard before with the Simaudio. At this point it was outperforming my Class A/AB amp in every regard - I really had not expected this! The only reason I don't recommend you try out the monoblock mode - is you may find yourself having to go out and buy another Spectron amp as I had to do! :)

So in a nutshell, if you are going to go Class D, I think there is no contest between any of the ICE amps vs the Spectron - the Spectron is clearly to me a much better amp.

DAn,

I would like to hear a good Spectron someday for comparison to my BEl Canto ref1000m mononblocks, which have been a home run for me to-date (I picked them up second hand over a year ago now).

My experience with the ref1000m's was that when I first hooked them up, the sound was so different from what I had just prior with a Class A Musical Fidelity A3CR that I did not know what to make of it. So it was definitely different. In my case however, once my ears adjusted I determined the sound was miles ahead and more in line with reference systems I have heard using very high end gear only.

I will say that the amps seem to benefit my larger full range, current hungry OHM Walsh speakers more than they did my small Dynaudio monitors, so I think the benefits of Class D over other amps in general may be determined somewhat by the particular speakers used.