Podeschi and Torono416
Thank you for your reply and I am glad you enjoy your headphones.
I have never had any super high end headphones, and have always wanted to try a pair of Stax electostatic headphones.
But I have had a few pairs of Grados, Etymotics, and Sennheiser 580s. I also have one of the original Headroom headphone amps, as well as the Grado headphone amp.
And although I enjoy them for working out, on airplanes, maybe for falling asleep and/or a trippy listen of Pink Floyd or something once in a while, I otherwise don't really get headphones.
I don't like the "orchestra in the head" feeling. Headphones don't image like speakers; I invariably find them uncomfortable after a while, and they lack a certain palpable, visceral quality that I perceive even with mini monitors on my desktop at low volume.
Of course, no speaker allows you to listen next to someone else without hearing them, and headphones on a per dollar basis are a better value.
In the end, Harbeth P3SERs and the Silverline Minuets are on my short list for further auditioning.
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Podeschi,
Just checking out the reviews and price tag for the Beyerdynamic gear, I guess I probably haven't yet experienced really good headphones!
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I am extremely impressed with Genelec 8020B - very very small pro speakers - and just under $1000 for a pair.
You can sit very close and get a great experience without bothering others - bass response was a real surprise for me - plenty of bass. |
Wouldn't the amp make a difference here? Wouldn't a high current and high wattage amp relative to speaker sensitivity help out at low volumes? |
I know that it is a gross oversimplification, but, as long as one has sufficient power, lower powered amps tend to sound better than behemoths. Also, some higher powered amps sound particularly dull and lifeless if they are made to loaf along at really low output.
Geoch has offered some really good choices for getting very lively sound at lower volume level. I like OTL amps, though I am more familiar with the smaller Atmasphere amps (the 30 and 60 watt versions) driving speakers with more modest requirements. I have a Placette Active linestage and it, too, is particularly good at sounding very lively (moreso than the Placette passive, and more than my other solidstate preamp, which is a Levinson No. 32).
As I mentioned earlier, I too like electrostatic speakers for low level listening. Not only do electrostatics deliver detail without being strident, the dipole bass cancellation effect to the sides means less bleeding of sound into other rooms (so one can play them a bit louder). For conventional dynamic speakers, I think Audionote floorstanding speakers and stand-mounted speakers are also very good at low levels. I've also heard small DeVore speakers, powered by Shindo amps, that sounded very good at lower volume levels.
Mapman mentioned Triangle speakers. I also think these are terrific low level speakers. Some people find them a touch bright (they are), but they are not strident and are good candidates for low-level listening.
I have also listened briefly to some Living Voice floorstanding speakers that sounded quite full and naturally balanced at lower volume.
For late night listening at more than modest levels, I use headphones. Sure, they don't deliver a conventional soundstage, but they can actually be more engaging and have MORE visceral impact (than listening to speakers at low level). I have gotten used to the inside-the-head sound and so I appreciate them as a completely different experience. The speed and freedom from resonance (from either the drivers or the room) muddying up the sound is a big plus with headphones. The headphones I use are Stax Omega II, Mk. 1 with HeadAmp Blue Hawaii Special Edition headphone amplifier. |
George,
You mentioned Transmission audio. I have read a lot about their speakers, but never heard them. Can you comment on any on thier line? Would they work well with OTL's?
I have not heard the Soundlab Aura's, but have heard a friends U1's many times. Can you comment on those. I imagine you run OTL's with them.
As far as late night listening, I really believe the ability to bump up the bass at night really gives a feeling of fullness at low volumes, since we purists don't have a loudness control. I used to run my woofers from a remote control integrated amp, and it was great to be able to tailor the bass to the recording and output volume, especially at night. |
Bumping up the bass to compensate for lower hearing sensitivity to bass at low volume (i.e., compensation that mirrors the Fletcher Munson curve) would result in a more natural sound. But, bass energy is more easily passed through walls and other structure so it would also be more annoying to others in the house, and in that manner, defeat the goal of playing softly to avoid disturbing others.
If one must use speakers, instead of headphones, finding something that sounds decent for nearfield listening (a speaker that is not too bright) and sitting fairly close to the speaker would be another approach. |
As you searching for loudness at low volumes, you must consider an analogy of : maximum clarity, transparency & above all, more than enough power to let the speakers effortlessly breath those qualities.
At this point of stethoscope analysis, the wiring loom is critical for the desired balance.
Now the story goes...
Back at 1998 I've trade my Soundlab Aura for the Proac Response 5 forced by a strictly personal & undue cause :
I could not get used to the way that the ESL speakers loading the room. It seems to me that the sound was stacked about a meter in front of them, while it was impossible for me to make them dissapear. It was like watching the music coming through two big open doors. The mind influense of those big panels playing music in front of me, was something that distract me as I could always hear everything coming from those "open doors". The listening pleasure then was replaced by amazement & awe about their unique & unsurpassed qualities : Extreme speed & transparency together with coherence, unbelievable inner detail together with body, weight & full amount of bass.
But a dynamic speaker, can energeticaly pressurize the listening space with a different kind of projection. A more visceral, more soulful vibe that engage my heart rather more than my mind. So, I've went for this trade-off, but never really could manage to surpass or even equal this speaker's qualities until today.
Yes, with the Proacs I was listening somewhat mudded, a bit uncoherent & about the half of what is recorded, but with more nerve & meaningful impact in my heart. I become aware of this preference as an unexpected paradox & consider it as a conflict between logic & emotion. (Brain damage ?) I cannot accept an acquired taste, I cannot learn how to like something, even if I appreciate & realise it's mastery of qualities, I cannot obligate my heart how to beat.
This Soundlab was my favorit ESL over Analysis, Martin Logan, Audio Static, Audio Exclusive & Acoustat.
I used to drive them with Counterpoint Natural progression & later with custom Futtermann 130watt monoblock. Then became apparent the true character of the pairing :
The speed & clarity, the vivid illumination upon the tiny shades of micro details, the enhanced sense of scale & especialy the unlimited HF air & the breadth of atmosphere on every recording were breathtaking. I know you cannot find a better OTL than Atmasphere out there, but I insist about the power reserve (over 100watt) at least with the 2 speakers that I mention here. I've tried accidentally my DIY monster Futtermann of 130watt with the Red Rose R3 (the predesessor of the Transmission Audio M1i) and I've found the missing link : a perfect synergy between them. A very special blending of qualities that many times makes me feel like the combination can defy the laws of physics. The holographic truthfulness was unbelievable to the point that after this session, everything else, was perceived by my brain as faulty, processed & adolescent empty, cold & sterile facsimile, without any credible illusion of the real feeling that can move the senses & satisfy the soul. In my trip to this hobby, this was the most memorable & delightful performance I've ever experienced in my home.
Now I 've moved on SET/Horns only for the adventure of the route & the haunting vision about a puristic direction where the brain swallows the music without guessing, or any kind of effort to synthesize & re-process the message.
But I surely regret.
The difficulties & spending of both money & courage to stand behind the project with integrity (full DHT valve of every rectification, regulation & every gain stage -even the active pre-pre and furthermore & especially the FR/BLH speakers) just don't compensate with the results as yet (after experimenting for 8 years).
So, I can't suggest you my custom OTL or the Red Rose R3 'cause they are not available any more, but I asure you both the Atmasphere (MA1 that I've auditioned in my system with the Proacs & was a heavenly touch of life) and the Transmission Audio M1i (that are available & as much as possible improved over the R3) are workhorses that can change the way of critical thinking & value judgement about audio components. This pair can open new paths of unexpected & new found pleasure as knows exactly where the heart of music is, and always exhibit precisely what performance the composer has in mind. Not a contest with usual hi-fi additives or hi-end perspectives. A treasure !
I wish someone could try the M1i with MA60. If this works, then by all means it could be the killer set-up of many mega $$$ pairs. |
Best? No right answer, but my older Rega Juras powered by an Almarro 5 watt amp does the trick for me. I bought the Juras new with my Naim system years ago and repurposed them to bedroom duty when I upgraded speakers. Juras are great with tubes! My wife and I do lots of low level night listening before bed. Their dynamics at low levels never fails to delight me, especially with Jazz and acoustic folk or rock. They are supposed to be has-beens, but nobody told the Juras. They just keep happily singing - efficient rear ported floor standers with great base response, a smooth midrange, and wonderful tweeters that really let the Almarro shine. They are proof that good sound does not correlate to hi expense. |
Another recommendation for late night, low volume: Air Tight MSM-1 Bonsai. And BTW, I would expect single-driver designs in general to do well at low volume, obviously with a good amp. |
Yes, Tobias. My new Omega MaxHemp V2's are VERY revealing at low volumes, giving an easy, effortless sound. The amp is very quiet, almost zero noise from the drivers. IMHO the relationship between amp and speaker are key for retrieval of low level information and IN MY EXPERIENCE, high efficiency speakers help a lot with this. |
Definitely high sensitivity speakers, if you want a living, breathing sound without cranking the volume. Horns rule. |
Coincident Pure Reference Extremes powered by Frankenstein MKII 300b monoblocks. Late late night magic..... |
