Bi-Amp success story


Hello all-

This is a follow-up to many threads I have posted already (using my e-mail address - joelm@charter.net before I signed up officially) Rather than tack this on at the end of any one of them I wanted to start a new thread summing up my experience. In doing so I will cover what I did and what worked and what didn't work for me.

My Gear (that matters to this discussion)

Yamaha CX-1000 pre-amp (I also use this for my d/a)
Yamaha MX-1000 power amp (330 wpc into my 4 ohm speakers)
and another MX-1000 power amp for bi-amping (effective 660 wpc?)
Paradigm X-30 line-level active crossover
Infinity Kappa 9 speakers.
Phoenix Gold ZEROpoint Reference II Inner Space reference speaker cable (2 10 gauge conductors) for the low end and Phoneix Gold 12 gauge for the highs.

(1) I tried bi-wiring and that produced no noticable effects for me. (using 1 MX-1000 amp) Maybe with better wire there might be a difference.

(2) I tried bi-amping using no active crossover, and while the soundstage was a bit better the amps were working hard for just a bit of extra volume and in my opinion without an active crossover before the amps it is just a glorified bi-wire.

(3) My final arrangement was very satisfying. My Kappa 9 speakers each have 2 12" drivers that cross-over at a low 80hz. I used the Paradigm x-30 with the 80 hz high pass (a choice of 50,80,120 hz) after the pre-amp and ran it to the right side of each MX-1000. Then I ran the sub-out for each side to the left side of each MX-1000. So one MX for the left speaker, one for the right. I chose this rather than the lows to one amp and the highs to another for a few reasons. (1) elimination of cross-talk (2) decrease in overall demand on each amp during segements with high bass or high highs.

The results were great! I have a much clearer soundstage, and I get a louder, clearer sound than I have ever had before. If I had the gear I would try putting a specialized amp on the lows/highs. One suited best for each purpose. But before I would go to that level I would upgrade everything I have except for the speakers. If I can scrape together the cash I want to try a Sunfire Classic Tube pre-amp and a Sunfire Signature Stereo amp in a non-biwired configuration too. If I like it better (as I am sure I will) I might liquidate my Yamaha gear. However I run my pre-amp "source direct" by-passing all tone controls. Since my Kappa 9's have a strong high-end it is nice to be able to compensate for that just by adjusting the level of the amp or the crossover.

Anyway thanks for all the advice that has gotten me this far!

Regards,

Joel
a71spud
Thanks for the response(s) guys. In the course of arranging to have my amps upgraded, I have had several long talks with Steve McCormack. There are four (main) options:
1. Upgrade, and use, only one amp.
2. Upgrade both amps and vertical biamp.
3. Upgrade both amps and convert to monoblocs.
4. Bi-amp with no up-grade (no matching either)-- but I consider matching very important, but shipping two 100 lb. amps is expensive just for matching.

Where two amps would be used, matching would be done as closely as possible by SMc. S. McCormack said he had a slight preference for the mono-bloc route, but that the other two methods are excellent also. Richard Vandersteen said, and I quote "only an idiot or a drunk would hook up that kind of power to Vandersteen speakers" (RV was referring to the 1200 wpc monos).

Well, decisions had to be made and in continuing discussions with Steve Mc., and the fact that I already owned two DNA2s, we decided that upgrading the amps to Rev. A, matching the amps, and then vertical bi-amping would be an excellent way to go-- and that's the route I'm taking. I emphasize that the the DNA2s are very powerful as is, ie 300/600/1200 wpc into 8, 4, 2 Ohms. These amps will even put out 2400 wpc into 1 Ohm. I also note that these amps are a true dual mono design-- they are not conventional stereo amps.

Steve, Richard V., and I all agreed that going to monos would be of little or no benefit for my purposes and would even likely be overkill. A notable benefit of identical amps for biamping is that if I don't like the biamping, I can sell one of the DNA2s Rev. A and keep one for my own use, whereas monos would have to be sold as a pair.

R. Vandersteen recommends 1. bi-wiring, 2. vertical bi-amping, and 3. short as possible speaker cables with Vandersteen speakers. BTW Sean, in the short term, at least, I'm staying with my 14 ft. spkr. cables, and 4 ft. ICs. One last point-- while my DNA2s are gone, I'm using a stock DNA.5 (I do have a Syn, Res. MC cord on the .5), and it's sounding great. Maybe all this expense and hassle with big amps is not needed-- but hey, I'm an audiophile: ).Thanks again for the interest in my "project"-- guess I should have started my own thread on it-- maybe after I get the amps back. Cheers. Craig.
I think it's great when someone joins in with their "projects" or experience in similar threads. While it might divert a small amount of information away from the original post, i think that it typically gives them even more info that they they might not have considered or asked in the first place. As long as it's done in good taste, i don't think that anybody here objects to such posts.

Don't take my word for ANYTHING. I only know what has worked for me in my systems. Your components, installation and personal tastes might be measurably different than mine. As such, you have the opportunity for a GREAT learning experience at your disposal. Don't pass it up. Sean
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Craig: Bravo! Common sense rules the day! Perhaps Richard Vandersteen summed up my position best and I suppose I'm guilty as charged! :) Still, just think how outstanding those amps would sound driving a great pair of ESL's! {{{Shudder}}} But I guess you'll cross that "bridge" when you come to it. -Jerie
Hello Joel, I am looking for a CX 1000... How did you use as CX 1000 as biamp back then?