Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II

Johnnantais,

I don't wish to start a debate but I must say that I am a bit surprised by your comments. We certainly have a lot of common ground and I applaud the work that has been done here to bring great sound to the masses.

I have done a great deal of experimenting with motors with varying amounts of cogging. In all cases reducing cogging has a clearly audible, positive effect on sound quality. Even very small changes in cogging are quite easy to hear. I should add that for most, identifying the degradations from cogging is not easy. Not that it is hard to hear but rather that there is for most, no reference point. As a case in point; those that have never heard a good idler will have no reason to suppose that they are missing anything. A trusty belt drive table would likely seem flawless or at least nearly so. Just because nothing objectionable is being identified, one should not assume that there is no room for improvement.

Because someone who heard a Verus motor at a trade show commissioned an idler is hardly evidence that cogging is inaudible. A comparison of motors in the same turntable that exhibit different amounts of cogging would be experience rather than theory.

It sounds like what's needed is to run the experiment. Is that possible? Can a Verus motor be substituted for a Lenco motor, or can you imagine a way to A/B a Teres and a fully modded Lenco?

Bolson, It would be fairly simple to to a A/B comparison by simply placing a Verus motor so that it drives the outside of the platter.

A comparison has been done with a Garrard 301 and the results are reportedly quite favorable.

Chris, I think I speak for most of us when I say that I admire your guts in bringing the Verus to market, and I am happy for your evident success with it. As for driving a Lenco with the Verus, have you given any more thought to either orienting the Verus horizontally or mounting the drive wheel horizontally within the Verus chassis, so one can drive the underside of the platter of a Lenco, a la the original design? As someone else noted, some (but not all) Lenco platters have vertical ribs spaced at intervals around the circumference of the inner side of the rim of the platter, which would prevent classic rim drive. (I've got two platters, one with and one without the ribs.)
PS. When driving the Garrard 301/401, does the Verus sit on the underlying shelf or is it isolated in some way from the shelf and the chassis?

"A chain is only as strong as its weakest link."

Gentlemen,

Whoever said that was certainly right, and it begs the question, why? Why adapt a motor that cost the better part of $2000 on a turntable that is essentially a stamping with a platter that is not particularly friendly to the idea of that particular motor? Add to that a 10mm spindle with a reasonably unsophisticated bearing arrangement, and the commonplace practice of removing a corner, so that a decent tonearm will fit. Then, consider the holes left by unnecessary linkage that one would want to remove after the motor modification. Somehow, fitting the Verus seems like a exercise in futility to me, not because the motor doesn't have merit, but more because the candidate for the transplant just isn't the best choice. Suddenly, you have a different turntable that has no remnant of a Lenco signature, and you have spent more than $2000 for a result that lacks sophistication in many ways. All this talk of severe change is not to say that the Lenco cannot be made into a very fine sounding turntable because it has been many times, but making a drive concept change would require a total re-think of the design, even more than it did with the black turntable that I built. That turntable started as a Lenco, but few people consider it to be one anymore because it contains few original parts, and even those have been radically modified. This is no different in that regard, except mine does retain the "soul" of a Lenco which is why I linked it to this thread. It is a true idler, and its wheel is employed in the same fashion as a Lenco.

Mine was a case where one thing lead to another, but this proposal departs from that due to the fact that one knows going in that such changes are necessary to achieve the desired results. Speaking of desired results, what are they? It seems to me that adding a Verus would change the signature of the Lenco to the point that it no longer exists, so why not choose a better match at the outset? That logical choice would be to buy a Teres turntable, wouldn't it? You would have a more friendly bearing arrangement, and no unnecessary components to plan around. The same goes for doing it with a Garrard, or any other existing idler, doesn't it? Then again, what signature sound are you looking for, and are you married to any particular brand, or even still, are you married to any particular drive concept? I submit that if you are not, we are posting in the wrong thread.

I suppose it all comes down to the issue of the signature of a turntable based on the model, and whether you want an idler driven turntable, or something altogether different.

...just food for thought

-mosin