In the search for cable elevators I have found a wide variety of opinions, not only on what constitutes a scientifically smart elevator, but also, those who think it is all snake oil.
I use inverted yogurt cups spray painted flat black for maximum WAF on the speaker cables - should I be using them on power cables as well?
Quick shout out to LIGO gravity wave detection experiment for winning the 2017 Nobel Prize in Physics. Couldn't have done it without tremendous team of vibration isolation experts.
At the beginning of these posts I said that it doesn't make a difference....however.... I just tried the 1 1/2 in sections of toilet tissue under the speaker cables and actually do hear a difference. The instruments are separated and not blurred (like wrong glasses prescription). I'll go back and try it again, but as of now I'm a believer. I noticed most high end cable has elaborate covering...mine is just 2 thin silver cables very lightly braided for each leg...that may be the difference.
Have tried them in both main and BR systems and never heard them make a whit of difference. Maybe the type of carpet of flooring one had makes a difference.
I believe Paul over at PS Audio sums it up best with his latest newsletter which I just recv'd...take care of the major tweaks first, matching gear, cabling, room conditioning and then smaller tweaks. He is using t-connectors from local Home Depot...go figure. With those savings I could buy one of his awesome products.
On youtube, Cardas has a few videos on everything from shielding to construction to forged spades.
Anyway, I found the video on "Current thru a cable" very interesting. If a lantern battery can cause those two wires to vibrate, then imagine what AC current thru a power cord can do to a nearby IC or speaker cable or even another PC.
What that video puts into perspective, to me, is that interaction between cables is very real. Enough to utilize cable elevators? Not sure, but enough to make me wonder about them.
Also, check out the videos on shielding. Even as the cables approach the table, you see there is interaction with it's surroundings. Again, enough to require cable elevators?
Elizabeth. You are so misstaken. I only use cable elevators made from baby seal skin, handclubbed in Labrador. It makes the sound so much more lifelike.
Never have used them and never will!Could not hear a difference when I heard them in a over 100K system that I use as my reference. Serves no real purpose to me now that I'm older and wiser.I used to wonder why my ex wife would shake her head and laugh sometimes when I'd try to use the same pseudo science used on here and other forums and explain something that I never knew existed to begin with until I read about it in a magazine or an online forum!The Emperor has no clothes!
As a follow-up to those that participated in this thread - Not only did I elevate the speaker cables and ICs as previously mentioned, I just elevated the power cords on the mono amps and put pipe insulation around the power cords for the APC and Processor since they are still on the floor. THEN, boy had I overlooked this, there is approximately 12 feet of excess SPDIF digital cable that runs under the floor from the iMac to the processor. That excess cable was coiled up under the computer desk and laying all over the surge protector. By installing three small cup hooks on the back of the computer desk I was able to wind the cable (very loose) around the hooks twice and up to the computer. Now it is off the floor, not coiled, and intersects power cords that hang down the back of the desk at sharp right angles. Now, for the first time ever in my tweaking endeavors have I noticed a distinct improvement in the sound - The music is much clearer than before. Oh, I should mention also, I eliminated the very short Toslink cable that ran from the back of the iMac to a Toslink/SPDIF converter and replaced it with a USB cable that goes to the same converter (also a USB/SPDIF converter). Maybe that was the big difference but whatever, elevating those cables, separating ICs and Speaker cables from cords, and the switch to USB has combined to make a big difference that I wouldn't have believed had I not heard it for myself.
Well, haven't I heard it all now!! I respect the opinions of those that use them and those that don't - there is no such thing as the perfect system, if there was we would all have it - however, there are perfect systems in the ear of the beholder.
BTW, for you yogurt cup users - To maintain a consistent sound throughout the system I only use one flavor AND the ones I use are Lala Brand from Mexico. That's right kids, imported yogurt cups for that perfect tweak. It should be noted that they are painted flat black to mellow out the bass. Bright colors such as day-glo orange will cause the treble to get excessively bright and tends to lend a hint of Latina to all music selections.
Please do continue with your comments - I take the serious ones to heart and hope other readers are gaining insight as well. I have a good laugh over the remaining 80%. All are appreciated
I just built my own using balsa wood from any craft place. I made look like a t-pee. I saw some examples and just built them, they are in the process of drying and I will report back shortly. What cool is you can paint them any color you want or any finish for that matter. Maybe I will paint them different colors and see if some color effect sound better or worse than others.....
Absolutely nothing! I've got cones, spikes, blocks, and more under equipment. Sometimes there's a need for a line in the sand. I refuse to apply any cable elevators to my system. It is possible to get great sound without them.
Is turning the flower pots over a metaphor suggesting that that the foundation for the argument of elevating cables is based on what might euphemistically be described as fertilizer?
Very amusing... be careful or you'll stir the pot of this thread. (:-)
Actually, I make no argument here pro or con on the influence of cable risers on the sound. As an engineer, I could make a theoretical case for why it might based on variation in the dialectrics surrounding the wire, but I have no experience or data to prove that it does. My primary motivation for risers was that they organize the cables and make them look better, and make it easier to clean under them. If the sound improved - that's great. As for power cables, I just leave them on the carpet but at right angles to the cables.
My advice to Puerto and others is that if you haven't fully addressed your room acoustics, don't worry about cable risers until you have.
Schipo, placebo effect would work but.... when yo try the changes on an intermitant basis and LISTEN to the difference it produced, and could qualify it for oyur own subjectiveness as well as from an independant evaluator then FOR ME these were a good invetment for the change it made for my rig. Everything we try in the hobby is a matter of subjectiveness, what you hear I may not or what you like may not suit me also, but I respect your point of view for without it we wouldn't have changes that lead to better.
Good point about stiff cables Zargon. With Virtual Dynamics Revelation for instance no need for elevators at all, they just remain in free air if you bend them that way (Provided your gear has a few lbs to brag with and Binding Posts with a major B that is). Aware of Rick's firm set of beliefs, there may be a strong metaphor in that as well.
Is turning the flower pots over a metaphor suggesting that that the foundation for the argument of elevating cables is based on what might euphemistically be described as fertilizer?
One very inexpensive and effective elevator that hasn't been mentioned is a clay flower pot. Clay is a fairly good non conductor and thus does not conduct static electricity. These pots are heavy enough to stay in place, come in a variety of sizes and shapes, and can be left plain or easily painted to match your taste.
I place the pots upside down for maximum stability and use about 1 pot for every 2 feet. Since my cables are fairly stiff, they stay in place on the pots and there is no need to fasten them down. If necessary, you could tie them with a string around the cable and through the hole in the bottom of the pot to short piece of pencil or dowel.
I use Hifi Pyon Mythology cable elevators secifically for my full Synergistic Research Active Tesla interconects, speaker wire, power cords and S.R QLS 9 power strip. They raise everything up about 6-6.5 inches away from any static or interferences. Awesome looking too & great build quality..
I use Shunyata Dark Field elevators, mostly to get off carpet to help keep static down as my system is subject to it in the basement. Also, I've heard it don't matter what you use to get these cables, (all cables), off the floor but I think it just makes sense for it to be made of something that don't resonate vibrations. I think that is half of why you want a cable off the floor so for me a cup of some sort will vibrate some and I just wonder if that would affect the sound. I have no testing or scientific reason for this thought but just me old common sense brain at work and maybe me justifying my cable elevators in my mind a bit to. Yes I think it improves the sound to get them off the floor but its been so long since I added them I can't remember what it did. It did get rid of my static problem.
Just for kicks, I bought 10 pieces of 2" thick acrylic, size 3x4 from www.CustomIsolation.net. I used them to lift ALL cables and cords 3" off the carpet thinking "okay? let's see what you got, and what the heck ppl 've been talking about?" It sweeped me off the floor! I freezed up when I first heard the first music notes, they sounded much cleaner; VERY clean without harshness at all. I went back & forth to assure it was not my imagination. My conclusion is yes, get them cables and cords off the floor using acrylic blocks do make sound CLEANER.It's a great tweek to reach for the high-end and the hi-fi sound. But fellas that like warmth, musicality, and romantic sounds must look-out, I suggest using softer material like wooden blocks or foams (may have small dielitric).
Damn fine idea Sprink.You should patent and market the balloons.You will get rich overnight.Charge a small fortune for them and throw out a few reviews on the audio sites and everybody and their brother will have to have them!!!Brilliant.Wish I would have thought it.
I'm considering using bundles of helium ballons tied to my cables. I was thinking of getting them after birthday parties and such, pretty cheap. Forgive me for the levity.
I use beer/soda cuzzi's. They made no difference in the sound. No money lost though. I personally think some of these tweaks go a little too far. Or maybe my system isn't at the quality level to realize such tweaks.
Elizabeth, you can get the Llama hair from Napoloean Dynamite. He lives in Idaho. If you can't get a hold of him, check with his brother Kip (he's usually surfing the web for ladies, he may find you). The packing tape rolls you can probably score from Uncle Rico.
In my experience, Yogurt cupss are good, but I have found that Edy's ice cream containers work even better, especially if they are painted in day-glo orange. The best cable elevators that I have used are some old bowling pins that I was lucky enough to purchase from the estate of a recently deceased audiophile that was also a 200 average bowler.
"How does the effect on the field radiated out affect the signal still in the cable?" It could affect the signal still in the cable the same way a ferrite affects the flow of high frequencies through a cable. A transformer works by placing a coil of wire next to another conductor, which then presents a load to the conductor carrying the signal. I have not played with cable elevators, and can't speak first hand about their effectivity, but the idea doesn't seem totally impossible.
I use slats from old wooden wine boxes to elevate my cables, just cut a groove and stand them up.
I notice that old French wine crates work best for European classical and California wine crates work best for American pieces.
Strangely enough some tests with beer cartons also made significant improvements. Budweiser Lite was good with Kenny G, whereas Becks set the proper mood for Lou Reed and John Cale.
Not surprising, Lone Star beer cartons were clearly superior with Hank WIlliams and even Johnny Cash.
Don't ask me to explain it, it's just the way the test turned out. Before I was an audiophile there was Bob Hope and Johnny Cash. After all these tweaks there is no hope and no cash.
I use pint or bomber beer bottles with sand in the bottom for weight and long wooden skewers to form a "V" to hold the cable. I elevate all my cables. I haven't heard a difference between the British and German ales however. :-)
If the electomagnetic field is radiating outward from the cable and it is interacting with objects not associated with the audio system -what difference could it make to the unaltered signal that is still carried in the cable unless it is reinjected back into the cable in some way?
How would the altered signal get back into the cable?
If I post that the sky is usually blue because of water molecules in the air and you ask me to prove it.. Where are we?
That's just my point. That statement above can and is scientifically proven.But raising your speaker cables doesn't have an ear shot. Electromagnetic fields can interact with the environment and attack your cables. I thought all those high end cables going for thousands were protected from all those electromagnetic fields nasties.
Interesting comments all - First, different flavors of yogurt do not seem to make any difference. Elizabeth's comments are poignant and, I believe, statements of fact. How all that affects a system is the question.
Thank you to those that shared how they approached cable elevation. What I did not ask specifically is - are you elevating only the speaker cables? ICs? Power Cords? all or some? The only things left on my floor are the power cords to the monos and APC. Both monos and the APC are connected to their own individual dedicated 20 amp circuits. The pre/pro, DVD machines, TV and semi-silent silent fan are all plugged into the back of the APC.
I started this quest for information because I cannot get rid of an intermittent hum in the right channel. The system will play flawlessly for several days and then suddenly break into an unwanted hum. Among a dozen other things, elevated the cables was something I had not yet tried.
So far, still no luck but it does look a lot cleaner behind the system!
Your comments are interesting, humorous (in some cases) and helpful. I appreciate all of them.
I have some Mapleshade which are basically 3 cylindrical pieces of wood and a wood ring that looks somewhat reminiscent of a napkin ring that fit together in the manner of a tepee with the cable on top. Not outstandingly stable so I just artistically drape my Golden Reference over the equipment racks so they don't touch the floor. My tweak license was suspended for life years ago so don't bother turning me in.
I picked Cable Isolator ESD's because they can be stacked permitting me to run multiple levels to organize and separate the cables behind and around the stands. I have herds of "Dust Bunnies" that roam around the area of the speaker cables and the elevated cables make it easier to round em up. This is "one more thing I've wanted to do" that is now done, moving the system one step farther along the path. The more "I wonder if that would make a difference" things I eliminate the more relaxed I find myself resulting in more enjoyable listening sessions.
Tpreaves. More accurately, I noticed a difference. I didn't notice any 'problem' before the tweak. After using the string tweak I noticed slightly higher SPL level at the same volume-dial setting. So, I interperted that as something masking the without-the-tweak sound that I labled background 'noise' for lack of a more objective description.
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