Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
Face

The first caps I put in were Sonicaps compared to the vintage foil in oil. I did one speaker with each type. I then got my wife to come down and here the difference. (she had no idea which was which, so completely blind)

She said "Clearly that one is wayyyy better. This is the best thing you have ever done" (audio wise) She was very impressed!

The only problem was the speaker she thought wayyy better was the vintage one!

I just paid the $ for the caps and an hour or two farting around to install them and after 30 years of wear and new technology the old foil caps were wayyy better?

She said they sound like real people and real instruments. At first I was impressed how much quieter the Sonicaps caps were. The noise floor was MUCH lower.

What I mean by all of this is that (tonality) is what you are getting (and paying for) with Duelund. Once the Mundorf Supreme's went in they were as dynamic as the foil caps (much better than Sonicaps) and as dynamic as Duelund but everything sounded still like plastic.

Now is that worth it to someone?

Tempo Electric says
"A clear improvement over the runner up. Brass instruments sounded more like brass, violins sounded more like violins, and so on. Everything was cleaner, smoother, and exhibited less glare. Previous to installing the Duelunds, we thought the (now) runner-up was so good that we didn't recognize its flaws until they were gone".

Tempo was correct to not say they are more more dynamic or blacker backgrounds.

I do think foil caps are very expensive as well. Tempo also says of the Jensen's Aluminum foil in Oil that they are Tier F! That is not cheap for a Tier F cap either!

Jensen coppers were only Tier D.

This is where I am having a tough time Tier A V-Caps are fairly cheap. Tempo has not tested Duelund or the new Jensen Paper tube in oil, and I hate wasting money.
Volleyguy, we hate wasting money too on crossover parts... that only give you a small improvement in sound "by theirself". Do like we did and put some QuickSilver GOLD on all your crossover parts and hook-up wires. You DO NOT put this stuff on any soldered joints....you put it on the LEAD wires on the crossover parts on the other side of the crossover board. I always thought that QuickSilver Gold was better on video BUT not any more....we can now listen to very cheap solid state gear with our HORN speakers all day long with NO side effects....
I can say inductors are wayyyy more complicated than DCR and Iron or Steel or air core.

There is resonance there as well. The more I hear the more respect I have for PWK. I paid $150 for the NC and would pay at least $200 or $300 for the vintage one. MUCH less resonance.

There must be some kind of interaction in the coil with the rest of the coil? I get a high freq noise. Is the coil vibrating? Before I bought this I would not believe 10 gauge wire could resonate?

I have moved the inductor much farther up the list of purchases. In my rebuild I am leaving room for a future Duelund WPIO. In the meantime the vintage in is VERY good in comparision.

IMHO tread lightly in inductors lower DCR is not all it is about.

Once again vintage parts could be a real alternative to modern parts. I expect the vintage inductor would beat any inductor barring maybe another wax paper inductor.

I just finished selling my plastic coated Linn k-600 tri-wire this week. Looks like a inductor will be next to go.
A heavy hitting cap review oming. Pretty well the best of the best.

http://jimmyauw.com/2009/06/13/be-prepared-for-extreme-capacitors-battle/
I may have egg on my face.

I swithced amps to see how the inductor sounded on a SS rectified tube amp. Sound is very strange? The vintage is inductor very choked off? The North Creek volume is much louder?

I still can not believe the difference from one inductor to another? I have to admit I did not expect this!

One too muffled and choked the other to hard sounding.

I thought inductors would not show much difference as they do not age like capacitors. (as far as I know)

I am going to sell this just yet to give more fair comparisons.