2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
tasouli
39 posts
 
Just an addendum to my original capacitor parts list, the capacitors I'm installing in my Total Eclipses are going to be Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Caps in all positions except the tweeter cap (which is Duelund VSF black). Charles, one of these days I'd love to look inside a Total Eclipse II and try and figure out how your crossover could be so different. I'm completely jealous about the positioning & type of your crossover components. Prodigiously more upgrade friendly than mine.

I've now passed a circuit diagram of my tweeter/mid crossover on to Bill(Grannyring) and think we may get some clarification about whether I have a Zobel network.

As usual, huge thanks everyone. I truly feel as though I'm not doing this alone. For the record, I have a family & these speakers were hard earned and are treasured and I wouldn't risk doing what I'm doing without some serious support and that's down to the incredible generosity of spirit of people in this forum.

Cheers, Tas
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Tas,
You chose a speaker that should satisfy you for the long term.
I think all Coincident speakers utilize a zobel network to ensure a pretty flat impedance across the board.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Tas, I looked at your diagram and the smaller 2.7 and 2.2uf caps are not bypass caps, but part of the resistor/capacitor Zobel networks on your tweeter and midrange drivers.

In these RC or Zobel networks a resistor and capacitor are linked in series and placed in parallel to the driver or speaker.

These networks do in fact change the sound of the driver otherwise they would not be there. They are used to smooth out rising impedance on a woofer and often used to cure or smooth out frequency peaks in tweeters.

Many feel the quality of the part does indeed play a sonic role in these RC networks. The fact that our speakers have a decent film cap and not electrolytic in these positions points to this fact.

Merlin Music uses an RC rework on their speakers and also uses good parts quality for a reason.

Remove that RC filter from your speaker and your speaker will not sound the same. The network is impacting the sound and the parts do matter. They almost always matter.

Builders and designers are typically not built like us obsessive parts testers and swappers .... Many have not done all the cap and resistor rolling we do and simply don't know first hand the result. Others just leave that to others and push the circuit design to the limit. Lastly, others have a budget and at some point not every part can be more expensive.

You have made some nice part choices Tas. Did you order CAST resistors from Duelund!
tasouli
39 posts
 
Charles and Bill

Thanks for your replies. Very interesting information Bill, thanks.

Now, regarding the CAST resistors, no, I ordered the standard type, but I have a feeling you're going to tell me there's a difference in placing standard to CAST? Please - I'm all ears? I just asked the Duelund distributor here to supply Duelund resistors not thinking there was a standard and CAST....
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Tas, I think the standard Duelund resistors will be perfect for the RC network position they are in. While parts quality make a difference in this position, not as much as the cap in the direct signal path of you tweeter.

The choices you made for resistors and caps in the RC networks are very reasonable with reasonable cost. They are far better than what they replace and that to my thinking is the right decision for this application.

Love to hear others jump in and give opinions.
More to discover