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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Anyone have a comment based on actual experience of bypassing a nice Mundorf Supreme or similar on the mids or highs in a speaker crossover.
Like to hear about your results.
salectric
751 posts
 
Grannyring, I have used Mundorf Supreme (regular version, not the Silver, Silver/Oil or Silver/Gold/Oil) in my speaker crossovers for several years. I find it to be a very nice sounding musical cap but with some fairly obvious tonal colorations. It has a rich warm mid bass and slightly soft highs.

I have tried many different bypass caps in an effort to make the Mundorf more neutral sounding, but to date nothing has sounded better overall than the solo Mundorf. Most bypass caps sacrifice the smooth coherent sound of the Mundorf by itself. For a while I thought I had a winner with a 1uf Sonicap Platinum bypass. The SP has a solid low end and fast, clean, airy highs. (The SP is well broken in since I have used it for years in various projects.). Just this morning, I tried removing the SP for the first time in about two weeks, and sure enough I still prefer the Mundorf on its own. The SP, as good as it is, makes the Mundorf less coherent; it no longer speaks with the same voice.

The only real solution is to replace the Mundorf with a Duelund CAST. That's what I did last year with the high-pass cap. A single Duelund (fully broken in) in that spot sounds much better than any other single cap or cap cocktail that I tried for the high-pass. So I figure it's only a matter of time before I buy another big Duelund for the low-pass. I just wish they weren't so expensive.

By the way, I tried a .47uf Duelund as a bypass on the Mundorf in the woofer xover, and it was even less coherent than the Sonicap Platinum bypass. Also, you might think a more expensive Mundorf like a S/G/O would make a nice match with a regular Supreme, but they didn't work out at all. Too much emphasis on the highs and a loss of coherency. The S/G/O sounds pretty nice by itself but not as a bypass.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
The more I learn about bypass capacitors the less enticing they have become.Theory of getting the benefits of a higher quality cap in a smaller value (less money) don't often seem to be the case in reality. Apparently to get the desired sound you have to get a good cap in the appropriate size. The shortcut bypass isn't the same.
Charles,
sherod
1,690 posts
 
I agree about refraining from using bypassing caps, whether in a crossover or coupling in electronics. Find one cap in the correct value that pleases your ear/mind and enjoy it. As always, allow for adequate break-in time before making your final decision of how things sound.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Others have had great luck with bypassing. I bypassed in my preamp last week and the results were outstanding. Bigger improvement in my preamp than going from a standard film output cap to Duelund CAST. I bypassed every single B+ power supply cap and filament supply cap with a bundle of JFX premium film caps. The results were astounding. The improved resolution, air and black background were shocking. Everything that was great remained, no negatives, only more information served up with an even greater sense of ease and natural tone.

Many, many mod gurus have experienced the same thing with bypass caps in electronics and speaker crossovers. One simply does not know the result until they try it themselves. All our words are mere speculation as this topic has way too many variables to conclusively say yes or no to bypassing in general. Simply cannot make such a wide sweeping statement.

That is why I am asking for first hand experience based on actual mods performed.

Do some research on this topic and you'll find both camps. I have read enough glowing reviews about bypassing, from credible sources, that my "open mind" had to try it. The positive results in my preamp tell me it is at least possible to have a great outcome bypassing.

An a/b comparison of my preamp before and after the bypass mod in the power supply reveals nothing but great results after the bypass surgery.

It is simple for me to remove these bypass bundles listen and then put them back in. No contest! Caption obvious difference.

Credible sources bypass caps in speaker crossovers to great effect, but it is dependent on the speaker design, caps to be bypassed and the bypass cap.

Ric Schultz of EVS uses Wima caps that he modifies with better copper leads. He uses these very tiny caps to great effect in his professional mods. I will be using these modified Wima caps on a Mundorf SIO cap in my speakers on the mids. I will report back on the results.

I have learned that this whole bypass question has no general answer. You wont know until you try. Some results will be stellar, some no change, some poor.
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