Clyde Stubblefield RIP

Shadorne, it’s possible we may be saying the same thing depending on our definition of our choice of terminology, but I have to disagree with your definition of "in the pocket". I have never heard a musician use the terms "in the pocket" "in a deep pocket" or "player x has a lot of pocket" to mean that the time "moves". Quite the contrary, it refers to a very very steady sense of rhythm with a "good feel" attitude; what some call great groove, funkiness etc. (what I referred to when I said that Stubblefield’s playing was relaxed).

I am sure you have heard a metronome produce "perfect time"; a sequence of absolutely perfectly spaced clicks. But perfect time does not mean "feel good" or "swinging" or "funky"; a metronome is after all just a machine. Think of each one of those metronomic clicks in time as a dartboard with a series of rings and a bullseye in the center. Each of those perfect clicks occupies a certain amount of space in time and there is a certain amount of acceptable latitude (rings) on either side of the rhythmic bullseye as would be defined by the very center of that click, but only as long as the player’s pulse dart stays on the "dartboard". As in darts, hitting any one of those rings can be considered hitting the target; but the closer the pulse gets to the bullseye, the more "in the pocket" it is. One of the two main things that define a player’s (not only drummers) sense of rhythm and unique time feel is wether his personal concept defines the pulse as being on the front side or the backside of the rhytmic bullseye. This is why some players have a very relaxed feel (back side) and others have a very "up" feel (front side). The other aspect of a player’s concept that defines the rhythmic feel is how the pulse is approached or set up by the figures he plays. Stubblefield was one of those players whose pulse was always, not only in the bullseye, but dead center in that bullseye and perhaps just a smidgen on the back side of the pulse (relaxed). The key was that it didn’t waver ("move"?); it was steady as a rock. Sure, the drummer can manipulate or play with the time but the PULSE generated has to be very steady to be "in the pocket". 

Regards.

I originally started this thread because I noticed that 3 days after his death, NO ONE had recognized it.

I do appreciate all of the meaningful posts but to start grappling over his drumming style on this thread, seems to diminish the thought behind the post.

Maybe another post to describe his influence on music?....

"The influence Clyde Stubblefield had on music and the art of drumming"

Just my opinion.

Happy listening.

I think you are exactly right, Slaw; something that came to mind and grappled with before responding to shadorne and I should have gone with my gut feeling.  Certainly no disrespect intended towards the thought behind your post and I hope that what I wrote is a reflection, at least in part, of the respect that I have for him as a musician. 

frogman,

I realized this and had trouble writing my last post for this very reason.

Now that all is good.. hopefully all of his great work will be immortalized in a thread that will exemplify the artist that he was!

Thank you for your post!

@frogman   

machine drummers do not sound as good as a great drummer because they are precise and have no feel or groove. 

Moving the beats around and away from the precise metronomic time is what gives the rhythm a unique pocket feel. Of course a groove once laid down must be repeated or looped so the imperfections in time from a metronome must be consistent from bar to bar (without consistency it just sounds sloppy)

I can provide more examples but regrettably I don't think a non-musician has much chance of grasping it. I encounter it all the time when playing a cover and trying to mimic a particular groove created by a drummer. The subtle adjustments in time that give a groove a particular pocket feel are one of the hardest aspects of drumming. Some tracks are done to a metronome (a lot of music theses days) and producing a machine metronomic sound can be a challenge too but it never sounds "in the pocket" as there is no feeling. Suprisingly, dynamics also play a role in pocket feel as the dynamics of each beat in a bar and where emphasis is placed will also define the feel of the groove. In the pocket drumming requires a consistent repeated dynamic variation through the bar as well. Just a simple change such as dropping the 1 or emphasizing the 3 over 2 and 4 creates a half time or reggae feel.