Comparison of sonic qualities of some tonearms

@jollytinker Yes, actually. It was a MSL Platinum signature on a Saphir mounted on a CS Port turntable and the 4 point was on a Kuzma R. Now, this was at a friend’s house and he feels the Saphir sounded better. He's a lot more impressionable than I am.

@mijostyn Actually, "no" would be your correct answer, because you used two different turntables. If you compare different arms on different tables with presumably different cartridges, you haven’t shown anything at all. The point of my post, as you could easily read, was to give a controlled comparison between two tonearm/cartridges, which requires using the same turntable at the least. 

[I decided to edit and re-post my comment as parts of it might have been insulting to people who are not involved in this discussion and that is not my intention. The essential point is that mijostyn has apparently been listening to these arms in the very same room where I heard the SAFIR arm and compared it to the 4 point 11. If that’s the case, I suggest that he go there himself, at his convenience, and do the experiment on the exact same table as I did and with the same tonearms. That way, he can decide whether or not this is a case of his friend's being ‘impressionable’ or of hearing a significant difference attributable to a different tonearm design.]

@jollytinker  I think you are just as impressionable as my friend. Both those turntables were on isolation stands and are extremely similar. It is much more important to be able to quickly switch between setups to AB correctly and it is also important for you to be blinded. It is highly unusual for anyone to have two of exactly the same turntables, although you could mount both arms on either turntable. Any good turntable is not going to "sound" at all. If you have a turntable that changes the sound I suggest you throw it away. It is so bad I would not foist it on anyone else. The cartridge arm combination may sound different and if so that is usually in the bass. A lot of times improper setup causes differences. If I had the equipment at home I would make high resolution digital copies of both setups playing the same record. This makes it very easy to switch back and forth to compare and my wife makes a great switcher. I always blind myself. 

Listen to @rauliruegas. He is absolutely correct, the Saphir is way too heavy for most cartridges. It impresses the heck out of unsuspecting audiophiles because of the price and cache of a sapphire arm tube. Same deal with the SAT arms, the Mark Levinson effect. Neither tonearm is on my radar. If I were going to spend silly money on an arm it would be for a Reed 5T. 

What @lewm means is, experience is the best teacher with one exception, that would be mistakes. 

@pindac is a gentleman of the old school, the classics. I am a chimney sweep.

Analyzing the design aspects of mechanical objects will usually reveal the best design for functionality on paper depending on execution. It is not how a tonearm sounds, it is how it works. 

It is highly unusual for anyone to have two of exactly the same turntables

I never claimed to be ordinary! 😉

@mijostyn I have read most posts with interest, have I missed something.

Does a Tonearm have Sound as you are suggesting. 

I understand a Tonal  influence might be detectable?  

My own experiences always are dependent on the Cart' for sound.

Engineering, depending on the designs being produced, is a means to a consistent and predictable performance, not necessarily a betterment over other options.

I could happily live with a Kitchen Cabinet Door or Drawer that is not a Soft Close design.