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Dealer Behavior

I’ve visited a number of dealers, after being out of the hunt for a long time, and I’m still surprised by the way many deal with potential new customers. A number of things that don’t seem like good sales strategy with a potential customer. A few observations:
  • Wouldn’t you ask about the kind of music they listen to first? Maybe establish some rapport and develop a sense of what to play to try out equipment? At least establish if it really is about the music or the equipment, and sell accordingly. Getting enthusiastic about a recording is a great way to build listening rapport. I came in with a group os sample tracks I know well (I think I inventoried them in another thread). This has happened only once so far, and only tepidly - "oh - I have that on LP!" (Karajan Beethoven Symphonies, 1963, remastered).
  • Why crap on their equipment? If someone’s been happy listening to something, that may be a clue (and for god’s sake, make sure you know specifically which equipment before making a fool of yourself by describing the shortcomings some other piece of equipment, real or made-up). I have an Adcom 5802 amp driving Thiel CS 3.6. I’ve now been told by *everybody* how harsh and grainy it is, and, more amusingly, how it’s not powerful enough to drive most good speakers. It works in my setup, perhaps counterintuitively. Or maybe I have play-doh ears, but if I do, why would you tell me that?
  • Why all the correcting and mansplaining? Even if a prospect is wrong, it seems more reasonable to say "that’s interesting, my experience is X"
  • Why make broad assertions and shut down discussion? If a customer expresses doubt that, for instance, dollars invested in cables will make a big enough difference, why wouldn’t you smile and say "Ooh - I’d love to run a demonstration for you that might make you change your mind!" instead of just "cables make a huge difference, you just haven’t listened with good enough equipment".
I’m fully aware that one sales technique for high-ticket items is to challenge someone with money to not feel worthy of the snake oil. I worked at an audio store as a gopher when I was a kid (Atlantis Sound, Third Ave, NYC) in 1978, when I first got the bug. These types of techniques were prevalent then, and I was shocked at the behind-the-scenes cynicism of the salespeople. But over my lifetime, the marketplace has been rejecting it. I’m really surprised, while Lexus, BMW, etc. have beaten this kind of behavior out of their salespeople, to see it still going on in Audio.
I don’t mean to say I’ve found it uniformly true - I’ve encountered two individuals who avoided, in the main, this sort of thing, but the majority were still....jerks.
I’m in the money management (and before that lending) business - thirty years now. I never interrupt someone when they are making a mistake that might help me or give me information. I can usually tell when people are bluffing and can’t factually back up their claims, best revealed by simply letting them talk. I smile and nod, but I go back to the office and trade. I assume a lot of other people who can afford this stuff have probably learned similar life lessons. I just don’t think this behavior makes sense, and it may help explain the parlous state of the industry at this point.
end rant.
Actually (Columbo!) one more thing: If you act like that in the store, why would I EVER want you in my home helping set up my equipment and negotiating the everyday non-audio, cosmetic obstacles that will come up there?
ahofer
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
I must have visited and auditioned at every high end audio store along the I5 corridor from just north of Seattle to South Tacoma, with a few in Olympia and Portland/Beaverton thrown in. The best ones were patient, listened, and were happy to let me have plenty of time to listen in a relaxed environment. The best one, in Portland, had a system with speakers so good my WIFE wanted me to buy them! Pure luck she was with me the one time I go to the best dealer furthest from home! 

Actually the best dealer I ever knew was Stewart Marcantoni of Weekend Environments. Unfortunately both of those two outstanding examples are gone now, retired that is.

Sad to say but the premier dealer in Seattle now is Definitive Audio. Sad to say because at one time about 30 years ago Definitive actually helped me learn how to listen. I must have looked quite the rube bringing in my Magnavox CDB-650 to A/B with their Proac DAC - and then not be able to hear any difference! - but the guy was patient, made a few suggestions (listen to the way the cymbals trail off) and then left me alone to listen.

Ultimately the Portland guy didn't sell me, his selection of premium SQ components sold me. Stewart sold dozens of systems to people who couldn't sell the stuff they bought from Definitive fast enough once they heard what he had. In both cases of course the reason they had the great gear was they had great ears.

So once again, whether you are a buyer or a seller, it comes down to listening skills.
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bsimpson
167 posts
 
This is good thread!

I rarely walk into any dealer --- I am such a cheap guy who kinda use ’green’ (re-use old equipment) as an excuse. :-)

BAD DEALER:
An Summit NJ dealer (you know which one it is) didn’t bother demo a brand new Rotel I wanna buy. They had everything setup for VIP customers (that wasn’t an ’listening night’, for the record) and didn’t want to reconnect anything to the Rotel. I purchased it brand new at 10% discount anyway and drove it home. Unit DOA. The dealer claimed I didn’t know how to plug it in after blaming my home didn’t have surge protection (I did). They refused return / refund, wouldn’t even offer help to get it fixed. They actually used the words "We could care less" (see my other thread) when I threaten to dispute thru my credit card company.

(The guy hinted that they could have completely ignore my phone calls and emails and personal visits to get help with that DOA unit ... but they were already nice to me as they were still talking to me after I paid for an DOA new unit ..... thus, "we could care less" meaning in my other thread)


ALRIGHT DEALER:
Quest for Sound, PA. Some of you may have mixed experience with it. But the owner would let us listen to whatever we want on whatever setup we want for however long. No pressure at all. Yet at the same time, they could be sloppy in shipping --- damaged items, or shipped me used demo item by mistake. They always took care of that promptly and professionally, nevertheless.


BAD DEALER:
Overture Audio. Sold me an expensive pair of certify used Avalon. When I arrived for local pickup, the speakers were all crated up. They didn’t want to open them for me to inspect (too busy was the explanation). Got home, opened the crate up, both tweeters had physical damages. Told them, they claimed the parts may take a while to arrive due to back order, offer free $200+ headphones as compensation while waiting for the replacement tweeters. None of them ever arrived. eBay dispute deadline expired. Didn’t even got response from them since. They blocked my eBay ID from email contact or buying.


THE BEST DEALER:
JS Audio, Maryland. Got a pair of Wilsons from them. Super honest, courteous and proactive dealer that truly make sure everything is done right and beyond the call. Not that I advocate free loading, but they offer their perspective customers pickup/drop-off service with Porsche. (I turned the generous offer down --- I am too cheap looking to be in any Porsche). While I was waiting, they offered fine wine and gourmet cheese, also kept me occupied by playing whatever $$$$$$$ setup I shown interests in.


SUPERB DEALER:
Paragon Sight And Sound, Michigan. Purchased some very expensive used speakers from them. Found out quite many inconsistencies. Turned out the trade-in customer was a total crook and fooled them completely. Paragon took care of everything very promptly and friendly. No pressure, no non-sense at all.



SUPERB DEALER:
GTT Audio. I used to deal with them. I am dead broke. Can’t afford their stuff anymore. Courteous service and passionate about audio. Always a happy encounter when I visited.



nolacap
84 posts
 
My first "high end" audio purchase was a Krell KAV 300i integrated amp purchased from Art of Audio in Portland Oregon back in the mid 90's. Before that I survived with Sony/Yamaha receiver-based systems connected to cheap speakers with lamp cords. I loved music and wanted better sound but I was a broke twenty-something that knew very little about high-end audio beyond what I read in Stereo Review (I think that was the name of that magazine).

Anyway, I wandered into this store one day when I was out to lunch with my boss and he ran an errand in the business next door. A salesman, an older guy (mid 40's, doesn't seem so old now) talked to me. He asked me about the music I liked, the system I had, and let me sit and listen to the very high end systems they had in the store. I remember listening to a system driving Maggie 3.6's?? and having my mind blown.

I started going to back to the store every chance I got. That same guy would always take time with me, talk to me about music, about my father's hi-fi system that turned me on to music when I was a kid, and let me listen to every high dollar rig they had set up in the store. Several times I sensed the owner of the store annoyed that his salesman was wasting time with a broke-dick kid.

Longer story short, I ended up purchasing a Krell KAV 300i from that guy for $2300 which was the largest purchase I had ever made that wasn't a car. That Krell integrated amp opened my mind and ears and created a life-long audiophile.

More accurately, that older, bearded, hippie, salesman at the Art of Audio, who wasted hours over the course of several months with a broke 24 year old, created a life-long audiophile.

I now have the means to afford a very good system that I've assembled and upgraded over many years. I've spent a small fortune on equipment and learned a lot over the years.

The last great brick and mortar store I visited was Echo Audio in Portland. The owner is awesome and successful because of how he treats his customers. That was over ten years ago and I've since moved to a new city. I visited a couple of stores since and felt condescended to and turned-off by some of the same treatment others describe in this thread. Why would anyone travel to a store only to feel uncomfortable when they can click and buy online? To compete, a brick and mortar needs to offer humanity along with the product.

I know there are still great dealers out there. Kurt at Echo Audio is one. But how many are taking time to educate and enlighten the next generation of audiophiles? Or non-audiophiles with means that could catch the ailment?

High end audio seems to be a market that survives on people with screw-you money who want the best even if they won't use it or appreciate it, and obsessive nut jobs pursuing an unattainable goal of audio perfection. There are also those who just want great sounding music and are happy to purchase a great system and listen to it for years without modification. But these people aren't buying the next new thing every year.

If you know a dealer that operates like the guy who turned me on to this hobby 25 years ago you should support and promote them. They are not only helping people, they are also creating a larger market for themselves.


ron17
607 posts
 
@bsimpson 
Totally agree with you about GTT Audio.  Bill Parish is extremely knowledgeable and a great guy....very patient and a pleasure to deal with.  
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