Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

@intactaudio 

That said, when eyeballing it I have always picked the slots that error on  trailing side since the thought of the stylus leading the pivot terrifies me. 

My gut feel is the opposite.

If the pivot trails the stylus tip the cantilever suspension joint is closer to the pivot point,

compared to

if the stylus tip trails the pivot point ( as you run it ), then the cantilever suspension point is further from the pivot point and therefore any directional correction driven from the stylus tracking the groove will result in a higher lateral force on the cantilever - more mass swinging around behind the pivot point too

@alan60 , You need to read the thread. What people think they hear is essentially meaningless. It tell you nothing about the actual performance of the unit. It only tells you that it works and plays music.

@lewm , As I said minimizing distortion is important and the phase error that a 10 degree tracking error causes is most definitely audible. 2 or three degrees maybe not, but as the error increases the phase shift crawls down the frequency spectrum to places where it is more audible with systems that image correctly. Listen to a great recording of a female soprano. Then twist your cartridge 10 degrees and listen again. Her location will become less distinct. Some might mistake this for ambience which it most certainly not. 

The Viv arm has other substantial disabilities like it's bearing and I know you and I agree on this. A tonearm has to be rigidly connected to the plater. THey can be absolutely no differential in their movement. A tonearm can have two degrees of freedom period, vertical and horizontal.    

All I can say is listen for yourself and then you can judge and have an informed opinion. If you hear one and like what you hear then great, if you don't like it then that's great as well.

There is an old saying 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.

I have followed this thread from the beginning. I find the concept of underhung arms intriguing because it goes against most all of the established phono playback geometry that many of us have long accepted, yet those who’ve heard such arms report results that conflict with expectations.

Someday, I hope to hear such an arm and decide for myself. I hope others do the same, rather than yield to the dogmatic theorists who don’t need to listen to know what something sounds like, and don’t want you to listen, either.

mijostyn

What people think they hear is essentially meaningless.

I have a history that has an experience of numerous Tonearms.

I do not recollect if such a Geometry used for the design of this Tonearm or a similar Geometry has been encountered.

Listening to the good user reports and the Arms the Viv Labs has Superseded as reported on, I am intrigued, and would very much like to be demonstrated this Tonearm Geometry in use.

The criticisms of the design for the Geometry are not enough to deter me from attempting to use two avenues to have the experience from a Tonearm that is very familiar.

I am aware a Titanium Wand Material has been in storage for a while at the producer of the Tonearm I use. As the Viv Lab Arm has a Straight Wand, I am already encouraging the designer of my Tonearm to look into producing a wand that will enable a experience of this Geometry.

I would prefer to have the experience created on a Tonearm I am very familiar with and the Tonearm mounted in a methodology that is closest to what I trust in as the ideal method.

The real Blocker I see, is that a Plinth may need to be modified to create the correct pivot > spindle spacing, the plinth material I class as ideal is rare in the UK and a modified Spindle Cut Out might cause and issue.

The second option is to introduce the other Tonearm Designer / Producer I am good friends with and seek their support.

This Tonearm Designer has built form scratch their Tonearm Design and is one I have been invited to receive demonstrations of on quite a few occasions during the R&D and working prototype stages. 

It is my view that mechanically this Arm is optimised, I know the tolerances in use, and the performance is in my view parity or better that the best I have had experience of.

The next stage of development for this arm is agreed, which is to produce it to a high quality visual aesthetic and dedicate Two Arms to be used for the the Signal Path wiring trials with a selection of sourced wires 

A Plinth is already produced to be used for A/B comparisons of the Arm, and is produced from my ideal Plinth Material. The design for the Plinth is a Two Arm design with a Tonearm Base Plate utilised that can accept 2 x 9" or 2 x 12" Tonearms.

I feel confident the Viv Labs Geometry or very similar can be accomplished on this plinth. I also feel if there is a good impression the other Plinth/Chassis can be adapted to receive this Geometry.

I am aware the method above is far from the Viv Labs mechanical design, but the Geometry selected is looking able to be transferred.