Electrovoice Duchess IV in California

shotor

I have custom enclosures with all electro-voice drivers from 1958, mine has 15W woofer, 37 lbs. Which one do you have that weighs 48 lbs?

these Model Six are near me, about 1-1/2 hours away. 18" woofers 1/2" thick foam cone. I am chaining myself to the wall so I don't borrow my son and his SUV.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Electro-voice-EV-Model-SIX-6-speakers-mid-century-RARE-HTF/15435153...

I/we have been discussing L-Pads, purists hate them of course, but, they do not realize that these vintage speakers were designed with L-Pads in center attenuation for normal rooms, and then less attenuation for dull rooms, more attenuation for live rooms. And: adjust to taste.

I just replaced my L-Pads with new 16 ohm ones, from Parts Express, they are big, very nice quality, except cheap plastic faceplate. They have a short shaft, not long enough for a thick back panel. I was able to retain my original recessed bronze cups.

https://www.parts-express.com/L-Pad-100W-Mono-3-8-Shaft-16-Ohm-260-261

The Model Six has a unique 5 position resistor network, see the frequency graph with the 5 curves

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/E-V%20Six%20EDS.pdf

The woofers are the Massive Alnico15WK. They have a great midrange clarity as well as the base they are meant for. Hence I've always felt it sounded better when I have the woofers positioned to face the front of the speaker (installed on the front baffle).
These are true gems of a speaker system and I really hope they find a great well deserved home. Super efficient at around 104db. 

Wish I could take them to Japan with me. Probably worth 3X as much there since I have seen Klipschorns sell for upwards of 15K and o-boy do they love American Speakers and Amps/Iron from the Golden Age of 50's and early 60's. 
 Some of their Old Pioneer speaker/horns were OK, but the Japanese never really could get their speakers right, not at least until later on when Yamaha and Diatone started. Even then, they have an acquired sound that is not everyone's cup o tea.  I did love the Yamaha NS-1000X with the carbon woofers and Beryllium Mids/Tweeters but I always find myself going back to horns (of coarse as long as they are smooth and not in your face honky, hence these EV's).
 My current main speakers are Altec Onken 360's which were made to order with special crossovers and emilar horns as well as wood horns  and fine tuned once all put together. Not sure what I will do with them when I have to move. Want to take them but shipping will kill my wallet. If I sell these Duchess IV, that should pay for shipping the Onkens there, lol.
  Now some of their old Sansui and Luxman Tube amps were definitely a competition for the American and British amps of the same era, IMO, they had good Iron as well. 

here's the data sheet for our woofers. they are massive, however they weight 'only' 37 lbs. The first time I moved them (they were down firing), they wouldn't budge. I put a small mirror on a stick, looked for more bolts, nope, only the 4 I loosened. I just couldn't imagine they were that heavy, up they came.

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/15W,%2015BW,%2015WK,%2015BWK%20EDS.pdf

the only difference between my 15W and your 15WK is the DC resistance. They used 10 of yours in Klipsch, and their Centurion and Georgian.

Dear Elliott, I feel misunderstood. In your OP, you seemed to be asking for input on whether you should purchase said Electrovoice speakers. I responded by detailing all the possible problems you might encounter, and my response was tempered by your previous statements and questions, indicating you are not that technically oriented. Of course, to an experienced speaker restorer, the Electrovoices would be much less of a potential challenge. And there is the possibility that these particular samples are just fine. Now that we have heard from the seller, that seems a real possibility. The eBay ad indicates the speakers were sold, so perhaps you are the lucky new owner. If so, good for you.


But please don’t accuse me of being shy about using vintage equipment, let alone anti-vintage. My ca 1980 Beveridge speakers and their dedicated direct-drive amplifiers are far more finicky and problematic than any pair of conventional electromagnetic speakers could ever be. Yet I persist in trying to keep them functional, because the sound is so superb. The persisting problem of the one amplifier oscillating is way above my head as a DIY guy, so if I solve it, that will be by luck. The Beveridge system is a "second" system in my house. I once drove it from an original Quicksilver full function preamplifier, ca 1985, although now I use a Manley Steelhead. Both turntables in that system are "vintage", a Lenco and a Victor TT101. I’ve upgraded the Lenco considerably, and the TT101 took 3 years after purchase to make it work properly (thanks only to JP Jones). The tonearms and cartridges are also vintage items. The Bevs require a supplementary woofer below 100Hz; I use a pair of Transmission Line woofer cabinets that I built in 1970, using KEF B139 woofers, also vintage. The woofer amplifier is a 1990s Threshold. The low pass crossover to the woofers is a Dahlquist DQLP, probably from the late 1970s. My point was that if you are going to mess with old equipment, you have to be prepared to solve problems. You know that as well as I do. The rewards for doing so can be great.


Case in point, as Dave Slagle (Intactaudio) pointed out, the components you replaced with a 16-ohm L-pad were not components of an L-pad to begin with. I feel partially responsible for first calling it an L-pad, but that was before I saw the schematic in the brochure you published here. How did the swap turn out?

lewm,

I'm sorry I have besmirched you.

I never really intended to purchase, just passing the awareness of them along, kind of fit the other L-Pad discussion.

I would like to hear them for sure. A pair of 18" alnico monsters, I wanted to buy them for my son, I would have had new enclosures made for him, but he said no.

I had no idea you are a Vintage Nut! OMG, I take risks, but you getting/keeping all those items is way beyond what I would contemplate. Vintage Kudos to you.

Dedication way beyond my typical inheritance/luck, and I am limited to fundamental repairs i.e. new cones, a burnt resistor, or pay someone else. I have successfully repaired nearly a dozen Teac R2R, but all cleaning, new belts, mechanical alignments, speed adjustments, nothing electrical.

Yes, thanks for helping me understand the difference between Pots and L-Pads. I successfully returned the pots (they were beautifully made), and got 16 ohm L-Pads. I searched, found some by others, however they looked like they were using/reselling the Parts Express ones, so I ordered direct from Parts Express. If lousy, simply return them. Happily they are very nice large diameter ceramic bodies, smooth and firm movement/contact inside.

Cheap plastic face plate and knob, and short shaft, too short for my 3/4" thick back panels. I had my existing recessed bronze cups which just solved the problem.

The original bronze press on knobs, and the supplied plastic ones were too large a diameter to fit when pressed deeper into the tapered recessed cup. So off to Greenbrook Electronic's disorganized wall of vintage knobs. Finally chose some small diameter ones, with too small a hole for the shaft. Drilled larger diameter hole all the way thru, now I can see the slot in the end of the shaft to verify the knob is on straight, I like that.

These speakers, all electro-voice with electro-voice 3-way crossover, like most vintage Electro-voice speaker models, were designed to have L-Pads in center attenuation position as normal (which is why they sounded so awful without them). Progressively more or less attenuation for live or dead rooms.

That Model Six had fixed resistors like you prefer to L-Pads, extending the resistor method to 5 selectable settings and 5 specific frequency graphs for each setting. That would make it easy to precisely match L to R. My Progressive L-Pads require a long and careful period of adjustment/listening/repeat to get them right. The McIntosh Mode Switch is indispensable for that process.