Equalizer in a Hi Fi system


Just curious to hear everyone’s opinions on using an equalizer in a high end hi fi system. Was at work tonight and killing time and came across a Schitt Loki max $1500 Equalizer with some very good reviews. What are some of the pros / Benefits and cons in using one. Just curious. BTW. I’m talking about a top of the line. Hi end equalizer. Mostly to calm some high frequencies and some bad recordings. 

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Bottom line is I bought the Loki Max for the headphone chain. But when I heard it against my CO it took me all of 10-20 minutes to conclude it was inferior sonically. So the next day it was shipped back to Schiit and I bought a second CO used but in great condition for the headphone chain from a sound engineer in Austria. Bought it on Reverb. 

At the risk of boring you all (skip it if you want) I am going to post my story I had sent to my buddy Geoff at Head Fi about how I got into merging pro EQ with hi fi:

 

So a little about me and this hobby. I was always interested in SQ from a young age. Probably 14 or so. Had a Kenwood set with a JVC SEA-1 10 band equalizer running into the tape loop of that set up. That was the 80’s and equalizers were all the rave. And so it went that I used mine a lot. Skip ahead to about 1998. My beloved Kenwood amp died I had kept all those years because it sounded great. So I shopped my second stereo. Got some Martin Logan Montage at Best Buy for 2 grand and a 500 dollar onkyo av amp. Hated the SQ. Kenwood still sort of worked. Well enough to compare amps. So did. Found the Kenwood despite its connection failings sounded better than the new onkyo. How could this be? At this moment my foray into hi fi began. My income started to improve around that time as well, which helped. Started devoting my readings to hi fi mags, reviews, and forums. Started listening to the gear I read about in showrooms. Traveled all over south Florida and Orlando and Melbourne to listen to really good gear. As my ear improved I began to appreciate NOT ONLY the tonality changes of an equalizer BUT ALSO the hi fi characteristics of the source material unequalized: timbre, pacing, dynamics, resolution, ink black backgrounds and soundstage not just height and width but front to back,etc. I began to appreciate just how different recordings can be in terms of these hi fi characteristics AND in terms of tonality. I started listening to lots of different EQ implementations, both digital and analog, but listening from the perspective of hi fi characteristics and not just tonality. As you can imagine I became very picky about equalizers. The vast majority very disappointing. Turn them on and resolution and soundstage suffered immensely. But these were cheap EQ,s. What about the professional recording world? They must by definition use state of the art equalizers. 
At that moment the lightning bolt hit me: I want to own hi fi gear AND integrate in a hi fi connectivity a hi fi EQ. The first part was easy. It didn’t take long before I settled on the Bryston B135 integrated amp. By now I was well aware I could go better with separates but I had heard this integrated and knew I’d sound great. Also money and space savings key. So bought the b135 for about 6 grand with onboard dac. The unit had a dedicated tape loop. Completely transparent. The next step was what to put in there. As your aware, you don’t shop equalizers in hi fi stores. Lots of blank stares and why would you want to do that and ruin your wonderful amps straight signal? Well, I knew at that point what I wanted. Clear as day. So I started reading reviews by studio production folks on pro gear. Lots and lots. No showrooms though for this hunt. Had to go solely on reviews. I loved the Charter Oak reviews and the folks I’d been talking to at Sound Pure said for my application the Charter Oak would be the best sounding and most musical least etched or analytical fo mate with my Bryston. So I bought it for about 3 grand. The moment I heard it I was floored. I played all different types of music and turned some dials. Best test to see if a hardware EQ can change tone AND still retain hi fi characteristics of source signal is piano, female vocals, classical jazz. So lots of those genres were played and wow results every time. Once I learned cables make difference I upgraded all cabling in the system for a few thousand more dollars. The Cardas are truly spectacular and really brought out the Charter Oaks full potential. Im at resting point with this rig for 3 years now. Ironically the Martin Logan’s are the weakest link in the system. But frankly I don’t care. It sounds that good. 
Every now and again I go to Ed’s Audible Images in Melbourne—he has the best gear in Florida—and listen to Diana Krall and other known artists. Then I come home and listen to this same music on my setup, with some mild EQ ing. Every time I prefer my gear. It’s simply more engaging to me. Is it more “hi fi” as previously defined? No, probably not. But the burning question is is it any LESS hi fi? After years of this I still argue no. Indeed to me there is something magical about the way the two pieces interact. As I’ve advanced my hi fi headphone game, I still get goosebumps every time I crank up the big rig. I feel very lucky to have gotten to this point in my audio adventures.

 

It does not matter how well you think you can do it analog. I can and do do it much better digitally. You might consider trying it sometime.

@mijostyn Sheesh... your condescension is deafening! I’ve had a home recording studio for 25 years, and produced/mixed over 2 dozen CDs, and mastered about as many also, as well as re-mastering for vinyl. I have at least 20 different digital EQ plug-ins, so YES I know VERY well what digital EQ sounds like, and they all sound a bit different.

But a digital EQ requires the conversion from A/D-D/A, and if I’m playing back LPs, that’s the last thing I want to do. Plus..... turning knobs is FUN. Pressing buttons on a digital EQ is not nearly as fun as tweaking knobs in realtime to find the sweet spot while playing back.

For mixing and mastering, automation and recall... I use digital EQs all day long... but that’s for audio that’s already in the digital domain. My M3D is for pleasure listening.

Eq’s destroy the phase relationships in the signal. There can be rare times when the benefits outweigh the downside.

@lloydc Destroy? Really? I ’might’ agree with that IF I were listening to a purist 2-microphone stereo recording of of something. But I never listen to any music like that. I listen to studio produced rock, jazz, pop, funk, punk, dance, new age, new wave whatever. Phase relationships be dammned! Look... I mix drum kits with 10 microphones on it... I know about phase relationships, and it’s not the EQ that’s destroying them!  So what do you do when you encounter a recording that is thin in the bass?  Do you suffer with it?  Or do you just never play it again?  That's sad, when more bass is just one knob away!

@tlcocks As for my talks with Mike Deming, he simply felt that the ’coloration’ of the PEQ-1 was favorable in some way, and I disagreed. I have a Great River EQ-2NV, and many times... simply passing a mix through it (set flat) makes it sound better. Same for the Massive Passive (tube EQ). These are studio tools that can make things sound better (sometimes). No, I don’t have an arsenal of gear.... just a cool modest home studio that allows me to be creative.

@mijostyn , just read your entire post. No need to insult. The hair spray part was uncalled for. I have told you my experience playing extensively with analog vs digital high end EQ. My experience differs from yours but agrees with @mirolab and a gazillion sound engineers who post their mastering experiences all over the internet. Again, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. But please don’t be insulting. It is beneath you. I have PLENTY of hi fi listening experience, a well trained ear, and I’m telling you the way I do it is superior SQ playback for many many recordings than what you’re used to hearing. 

@mirolab , please tell me if your Vintage Skyline piece has better sounding bass and treble bands than the CO. If so, I may buy one.