Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?


Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?

I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.

I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.

So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.

Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.

Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.

My system components are as follows:

B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center
Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp
Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro
Esoteric DV 50
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire
Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem
Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary
No after market power cords or isolation equipment

My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.

AVGURU
avguru
To All:

The information that Alex revealed about the master clock is exactly the type of information audiophiles need to know and more importantly understand. We (as audiophiles) don't stand a chance against these marketing behemoth's as they are pro's at disimenating technical information that at first glance look seems extremely impressive but later we find has very little impact on the actual performance.

We've seen this stuff over the years. I remember in the 70's when THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) was the big buzzword and everyone obsessed over what the percentage was for their unit. Then power delivery (# of watts per channel for amplifiers) was big with many people believing more Watts meant more power. We later came to find out the amperage (current)is more important than Watts. Also, mfg's can play game with wattage ratings similar to those played with THD.

Then when Sony (and now Esoteric) came out with these massive, over built transports (Sony's SCD-1 and now Esoteric's X01/UX1) we all get giddy and happy again because they'd like us to believe that their transport's are unique and sets a new level of performance that other companies can't reach.

Now power conditioners are the big thing and everybody wants a Richard Grey, PS Audio, etc.

Guys, its time to wake up, sift through the marketing bs and become a better, more informed audiophile who really knows his stuff. In my quest to find Digital Audio Nirvana I have also found it necessary to learn the electronics/technical side so I can determine what's really important. I've been reading books and talking to audio engineers who know the "real deal". Let me share my findings with you:

We found out years ago that THD is easy to manipulate through the use of negative loop feedback. Normally THD figures are given at a fixed frequency (say 2K as an example). By applying negative feedback at a fixed frequency you can lower the output impedance, raise the frquency response and at the same time lower the THD.

However, in real "life" we don't listen to music at fixed frequencies. The frequency range is quite variable. That's why Intermodulation Harmonic Distortion is much more important figure to know. Unfortunately, there is no real reliable way to measure that. So my point is THD is not a reliable figure to meausre performance.

The quality of the internal clock on a cd player is extremely important. The clock synchronizes the timing between the DAC and the transport. The more accurate the clock the more accurately the laser pick-up can read the disc at the required 44.1K frequency and the more accurately the DAC can interpet the digital information (1's and 0's)and complete the digital to analog conversion.

Although the mechanical coupling and physical build quality of the transport is important (hence the fame of TEAC's VRDS), the accuracy of the clock and the way in which it sychronizes the DAC and laser pick up is more MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. That has a direct effect on "timing jitter" in terms of delay in reading information. Though these delays are measured in pico seconds they do have a cumulative effect on the flow and musicality of the information you hear.

Power supplies are also extremely important. Mfg's love to throw around the term "we use a torroidal transformer" in our units. What's really important in a power supply is whether its a "switch mode" or "true linear power supply". A linear power supply is much more desirious and will improve the performance of the unit immensely. It also has the ability to provide "reserve power" when your system or the music demands it better than switch mode power supplies. Finally, switch modes power supplies are much noisier than linear power supplies.

Furthermore, its even better to have a power supply that's not only linear but also fully balanced. A fully balanced power supply will truncate (knock off) the asymetric part of the sine wave that produces noise from the power line. In truth, if you have high quality components (amps, cdp, pre-amps) that are fully balanced and utlize the better power supplies and transformers YOU DO NOT NEED external power conditioners. You do need surge protection. And better outlets (PS Audio/Hubbell) are helpful.

This whole industry of power conditioners came about because many mfg's (in an effort to save money and increase their profits) stop using high quality power supplies and transformers..especially on their lower end units. They've all sold us on the idea that the electricy coming off of your neighborhood transformer is dirty and noisy and can hurt the performance of your system. That is true...but the beauty of fully balanced power supplies with high quality transformers is they internally clean up the AC BEFORE it hits the internal circuitry of your unit and has a chance to degrade the audio performance. Keep in mind I'm strictly talking audio here. I don't know enough about the video side.

The point I'm trying to make here is don't ever take to much stock in the technical merits the mfg's advertise to you upfront. Worry more about what they're NOT TELLING YOU. Take time to learn about the components and parts in a cdp that are truly crucial and important and why. Guys like Alex and some of these other modders..they do know.

The sad truth is some of these higher quality parts are not even that expensive. Alex can buy a really high quality dac for $15. Or a high quality clock for $30. Which makes it even more disgusting and unacceptable as to how these mfg's can charge $3,000-$15,000 for a cdp and still not include the very highest quality parts available in the market. These modders can give you better units at much lower prices.

I'm not saying don't buy from a mfg. I still like many of the products on the market. What I am saying is do your research and find out what you're "really getting" in terms of quality of the components that really matter. The better companies will answer your questions and tell you the quality of parts used. If they can't tell you maybe you should have a modder check it within the return time frame to make sure its a quality piece. But whatever unit I by to replace my DV 50 you can be sure I'm going to be well informed in regards to exactly what did I buy. I'm tired of this "audio carousel". I want value and quality, value and quality, value and quality". It's not about how much money you spend...its about how smart you are in spending it!
Have you thought about trying out a turntable again? Much less smoke and mirrors in that side of the industry. Although there still is the 3,000% mark-up on cartridges.
Avguru, there is a guy who live next door to me who
own Meitner, I hope, He will give me and you a chance
to hear your DV50 and my Sony Mod in his system,It
would be very interesting.I gave my number and email Him.
If indeed , He is willing to have fun, I would really
appreciate it.I agree on everything you said Avguru.
Next door? David and I corresponded, and he is interested in a shootout although he won't be able to attend on the 19th. We know each other as he used to own a Blowtorch preamp. Very likeable, charismatic fellow.
Brian
Reb,

Agreed, but over the years I've gotten lazy in terms of collecting and taking care of vinyl. Lots of maintenance and lp's are expensive. Additionally, its hard to find a pre/pro with a great phono stage. My system must do double-duty for HT as well as 2 channel. Finally, as you mentioned the pricing for a really high end cartridge is ridiculous.

But Reb 1208 I may have to revisit vinyl as at least with turntables its much easier look at the internals, mechanical mechanisms, platter, etc and actually "see" some of the technology at work!

AVGURU