Field coil dava cartridge

There is no similarity between DS audio and DaVa except that both are the most detailed I have heard. Jonathan Tinn owns north and he or Mike could let us know what he thinks about both

 

 DS audio is not a field coil conical cactus stylus cartridge that can be put through an external phono, not does it have a tube power supply though is expected to get a tube encoder, I think. The sound and the resulting emotions are quite different between the two

whomever brought the topic up. 12" tonearms are terrible. They sacrifice low inertia and stiffness for an insignificant improvement in tracking error.

30% reduction in tracking error is not insignificant.

I've been absent for too long. @pindac wax poetic all you want. I love that. My own way of saying it is, "I am going to kick ass":-)

@ whomever brought the topic up. 12" tonearms are terrible. They sacrifice low inertia and stiffness for an insignificant improvement in tracking error. There is no decent cartridge available today that demands that kind of mass. If anyone thinks a 12" arm sounds better, unless there is something very unusual about their setup, it is entirely psychological. Under all normal circumstances they can't and they don't. 

Now back to the Dava. There is always the very slight chance that the DAVA is an extremely good cartridge. From what I see and read there is no way in --- that I would opt for one without being able to evaluate one in equipment I am familiar with. There are several cartridges that I would buy sight unheard based on the design, the reputation of the manufacturer and lastly whatever reviews are out there. The DAVA is not yet one of them and I wouldn't hold your breath. I feel the same way about the DS Audio system and there are probably more people who think that is a great cartridge. Maybe I'm just a stodgy old guy that can not tolerate change(that's BS). Maybe I just enjoy tweaking Mikes chain, ( I don't think he cares). Maybe it is because I honestly think it is a piece of garbage, (I would not go that far). Darius Has obviously put a lot of effort into it. It should take off and make him a lot of money), ( the Jewish way of looking at things. I'm Jewish so I can say that without pissing myself off).

Dear @bonzo75 : Good for Darius and bad for the MUSIC.

 

Look, I´m not against you, Darius, Mike or any one else in the overall cartridge topic. Difference is that after my cartridge and Mike " new " system research I seen mainly the high inaccuracy in the FR cartridge response that because that fact goes against MUSIC.

I’m not too against the fact that you, Mike and all the other gentlemans in that true " stampede " like it because for me that " like it " that even that does not has objective justification at the end is what you like and I respect that.

 

R.

 

 

Dear @mikelavigne  : First I anever post something " teasing " some other gentleman, it's not my style/way of thinking. Maybe to serious about critical audio issues.

If you posted that is because you really know that gentleman way of " life ". No problem, I will delete my posts and will change it.

 

R.

@mikelavigne  you are always such a gentleman. Love your responses to raul

@rauliruegas

i think Bonzo is just teasing you. and he is amused by your responses, not frustrated. you are not holding him back from anything.

it is your right, anyone’s right, to dismiss any product without hearing it. but when a product stops taking orders because the waiting line for it is too long, then maybe it’s worth hearing. many who have ordered it have heard it. just my perspective on the situation..

sure glad i have a DaVa here to listen to.

Darius just posted this on Facebook

“ATTENTION!!! All the orders for DAVA cartridges will be taken again after 1 May 2023.”
 

not sure if this is because he is choc a block filled with orders or because he thinks debating Raul and milo will take another 8 months * 24 hours.

 

 

A fine summation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

 

Just happened to visit the Gon for a short discussion, and ran into Raul

Dear @jeff1225  : " It was the least expensive 12" tonearm when I wanted a 12" 15 years ago. "

Things are that I owned several vintage 12" tonearms, it looks really good. I learned several things why not use 12" ( even that today there are audiophiles enjoying 14" tonearm. ).

I owned both SAEC top of its line: the 506-30 ( that was designed not for home system but for radio stations.) and the WE-8000 the build quality level on both tonearms was and is second to none but unfortunatelly not only are 12" but with a double-knife bearing ( 3012: knife-ball. ). I owned too the FR-66 and the little shorter MAX-282 that is one of the best tonearms even today, Audiocraft AC-4400, etc.

 

Could be that you already read this SAT explanation about ( Dava goes against my syatem MUSic/audio targets and not curious to listen it. IF at random I will have the ocasion to listen it then I will do it. ):

 

 

"" 

 

R.

 

Enjoying the time on offer through retirement is undoubtedly the goal.

Making additional time for Travel, Catching Up with Old Friends, investing more time into an interest, either one that is known or new, striking through the experiences listed on the Bucket List. With the extra time available there are goals to work towards.

There are lot more experiences behind, than there are out in front, so setting to the tasks is the key to the door.

There is no harm at all that can come from meeting up with others with a shared interest and experiencing their take on the shared interest. 

The dialogue and friendships that can develop are much more valuable than anything on offer from being anonymous and Keyboard Smashing into a forum.

Hence my continued encouragement made known to others to look to find a route to interact with those who are participating in a similar activity with an enthusiasm. 

My Local Group picks up a New Regular Attendee probably every 18 Months, but two new visitors have started attending regular during 2022. It is great to see what they bring to the occasions, the faces full of expression of deep interest and the obvious outward expression that and encounter is a stimulus is always great to see. There is always a very well worded follow sent out as a Group mail, as a response to the occasion.

@rauliruegas 

I've had the 3012R longer that WBF has been in existence. I've been patiently waiting for your tonearm to debut so I can buy that.....😀

 

I actually really enjoy my MM carts, I was just having a little fun. I also really enjoy your posts. I would encourage you to listen to the DaVa when you have a chance. I wasn't expecting to like it so much. Just like I wasn't expecting to own the 3012R for so long. It was the least expensive 12" tonearm when I wanted a 12" 15 years ago. I paid $800 for a NOS one on eBay. I owned it before I even had a table to mount it on. I just haven't heard anything better on my system.  

@jeff1225 , I do use my ears. The problem is that I can not use yours or anyone else's unless we are both listening to the same system. 

@pindac , it is always best to evaluate equipment in the flesh and now that I am retiring I will be able to visit more shows and shops. 

Intelligence has conquered numerous problems that have confronted humanity. It is not intelligence that is the limiting factor but knowledge which has yet to be gained. What is politically incorrect to say is, intelligence is not a fixed trait like blue eyes, it is highly variable. As dirty Harry once said, " A mans got to know his limits." 

Mijo, I guess it is my fault for not having fully explained my reasoning.  When you see those impressive flat lines on the B&K print-outs that used to be supplied in the box with new cartridges, as far as I know they have to have been created using an input adherent to a compensation curve a la RIAA and then the output of the cartridge has to have been filtered according to the converse of the (RIAA) curve, in order to generate that nearly flat line between 20Hz and 20kHz.  So what you are looking at is the sum result of whatever errors there were in the encoding of the test LP, in the cartridge's response to the input, and in the final decoding.  The graph does not really tell you what the cartridge per se does to the input signal. When you're talking about differences of 0.5db (voltage db), those distinctions assume some importance. And then of course you don't get that flat response at your listening position even if your own phono corrector is perfect.  Which is one reason why we don't all love the same cartridges.  Imperfections are different for different systems, not to mention the bias that we carry in our heads, the magic balance each of us thinks is most real.  My two systems definitely sound different, but not too different. Both of them are consciously put together to give me a close approximation of reality which endeavor brought them close together sonically, but they get there in different ways.  Once I had reached that point in their development, I became much less willing to tweak them or experiment with new equipment, although every once in a while I do that, as you know.

Dear @jeff1225 : " You guys really do make me laugh. Don’t like the design so you are going to draw opinions about the sound but are not willing to actually hear it in a system. Thank you both for the entertainment. "

 

Well, I know that you already knew that audio world is in reality an audio circus where we can find out clowns as you. Nothing wrong with that or with me.

Now, you are totally wrong in what you stated because what I posted was and is not about " sound " that you said but several true facts ( not because I posted. ) on what surrounded that cartridge design where one of those facts is that the cartridge FR deviation is 4db-6db and this sole fact really makes me laugh. Now you are an active member of that wbf stampede that started 2 years ago by a gentleman with a system where only the speakers have a price tag of over half million big dolars. Go figure !!! Btw, you can go to the other Agon thread about " what the best cartridge " where you can continue " laughing ". Who cares.

 

 

"" I will be placing my order after I sell some of these crappy MM carts that Raul’s thread convinced me into buying without hearing. ""

 

It’s weird that you mentioned about when not many time ago you was really happy with. Next is one of what you posted on that issue:

 

 

""" I’ve purchased a Ortofon SPU A95, if you have a chance to try one I’d suggest it.

Signet 7TK-SU is still my current favorite on my Acoustic Signature Ascona and SME 3012R. """

 

That AT group 7TK is almost the entry level model and you was in " love " mounted in the 3012R that’s an stapede tonearm in wbf. Ridiculous for say the least.

 

Now a simple question: from next " crappy " cartridges which one of them you listened in your room/system? all where " discovered " in that MM thread:

 

AKG P100 LE, Technics 100C MK4 ( stand alone version ), Stanton 981HZSII, Nagaoka MP-50 Super, Grado " The Amber Tribute ", Acutex 320 III STR IMproved, Signet TK10ML-II, Azden YM-P50VL, ADC 27, Shure ML140HE, Nagatron 9600, Grado MCZ/A, Audio Technica Precept PC440 LC, Astatic MF-2500, JVC X-1MK2, Grado G-1+, etc, etc.

 

Your answer will be appreciated but before that I can tell you that any one of them can compete today with any top cartridge it does not matters if MC, field coil or the like.

 

 

""" I can absolutely trust my ears when I’m listening """, good because the ears of any humasn been is way limited where those ears can foolished you as happened too with the other gentlemans/members in that cartridge STAMPEDE.

 

You make my day. Thank’s for that.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

 

R.

I usually attend demonstrations carried out using Five Different Systems in homes throughout a year and also in a year can be introduced to a few other systems in unknown homes, further systems are experienced 'not in a home' if an event is attended.

The regular visited homes where I am familiar with the systems in use, are all able to impress and make very good presentations, the type of ones that I would be happy to introduce any forum member from any forum to.

I have always had a sympathetic understanding of a system presented in a home, especially one that is new to myself and one that maybe has quite obvious sonic traits that are not to my preferences. I am happy to discuss with the owner how long they have been putting the system together and which changes have been made to achieve the system that is un use.

It does not take long to work out that a certain individual builds a certain type of system to suit their own unique preferences and my thoughts on the sonic traits being detected, that do not come across as attractive to my prferences are of no importance and certainly do not have a place in the encounter. What matters is that I am a guest in another’s home and where I can support and offer encouragement for the positives being discovered is the Cornerstone of growing a friendship, especially where likeminded individuals are becoming rarer that Rocking horse Poo.

If I was to attend an event and a Commercial entity was demonstrating their wares. If an opportunity comes, ’which it has’, I will inquire about the intention for the system being demonstrated and would not hesitate to inform where I see the description being presented by the vendor and the impression made on myself through the demonstration and my assessment, are from my standpoint not aligned. It is not a nice trait (something a little whiffy) when a sales pitch being directed at somebody, is attaching itself to a Marketing Buzz Word or Journalistic Hype, but the sale being encouraged within the location is quite amiss in matching the attraction of the desirable traits of a Buzz Word.

It is an 'absolute fact', that one can go into different environments and make trusted and very useful assessments of an assembly of Equipment or even Particular Items of Equipment, through receiving a demonstration, they need nothing else than their senses to be healthy in order to make an evaluation.

Getting out and experiencing other systems of items of interest is the most enjoyable and healthy practice within HiFi, it is my mantra, it is this practice that has encouraged changes made within the home system that has created the in-use system today. It is also this practice that has enabled myself to measure my system against others and in some cases, systems approaching £200 000 or more, I don't feel I need to extend to such monies to get the experience that satisfies myself.

The above though is not sharing the experience of an item of interest entered into your own system used in your own listening environment in a relaxed emotional state.

With this in mind, a good impression made at another abode or venue, is one that identifies an item for a shortlist, and ideally to be included for a Home Demonstration, if the Home Demo' opportunity is able to be created, otherwise to purchase outright with no experience of the item used within the system, is a punt purchase. It would be bettered with a period of a pre purchase familiarisation in place for a purchased item.

With the modern marketing options, a Home Demo’ of an item of interest is difficult to achieve, but a demo’ of an Item of interest is usually achievable if a bit of footwork is carried out.

When I reassemble my system from storage, I have a list of items for a Home Demo', these are items of interest I have gathered over the past year or more. Fortunately, some items of interest are on others shortlists and I might get a few listens in other systems prior to be loaned the device for my own home audition.

@mijostyn 

I can absolutely trust my ears when I'm listening to a system. We listened to 3 turntables, two were fitted with the Etsuro Gold cartridges. The DaVa was head and shoulders above the Etsuro's to my ears. Dynamics, tone, and flow were superior. 

And that's my point, use your ears. 

A man, who is not too long passed, and certainly did seem to have an 'understanding of the Physics Involved', once stated and which is recorded for all to see as a legacy, is to be seen below.

"We have been endowed with just enough intelligence to be able to see clearly just how utterly inadequate that intelligence is when confronted with what exists. If this humility could be imparted to everybody, the world of human endeavours would become more appealing."

@jeff1225 , I'm glade we are good for a laugh. Good luck with your DAVA. Please come back in a year and give us a long term assessment. 

But, for the record, there is so much variability in how we listen and in the performance of our systems you can not make sense out of what any one or even 10 individuals hear. If you are making a buy decision based entirely on what someone else hears you are likely to be disappointed. You can't even trust your hearing if you were listening on someone else's system!  Those of us with an understanding of the physics involved will always add those considerations into the mix as well as the history of the manufacturer and whatever reviews are available. 

@mijostyn ​​​​@rauliruegas 

You guys really do make me laugh. Don't like the design so you are going to draw opinions about the sound but are not willing to actually hear it in a system. Thank you both for the entertainment.

I've heard the DaVa at Mikes house and was thoroughly entertained. I will be placing my order after I sell some of these crappy MM carts that Raul's thread convinced me into buying without hearing.

Simple lesson is this boys: all listening is subjective. Listen for yourself. 

@mikelavigne , It is wonderful to be able to buy a multitude of expensive cartridges and be able to listen to them in your own system. I now find myself in that position but still will not look at cartridges that I think are substandard in any way especially from a cottage manufacturer. Time will certainly prove I am wrong in certain instances. As long as you enjoy what you are listening to life is good. 

@lewm  Lew, I have seen frequency response curves on many cartridges that were dead flat until the extremes. Obviously there is more to the performance of a cartridge than frequency response or they would all sound the same.  

Dear @lewm  : " questioning the reality ".

in the  @mijostyn  frequency range posted please tell us what's your " reality " talking about. posted that in that FR " all " FR cartridges is flat: dead flat and if you own a cartridge that measures over that then something is wrong down there and not easy to be exactly aware what is.

 

R.

Dover, once again I don’t want to go off on a tangent or to steal this thread, but when I said “within 0.5 db”, to me that means within plus or minus 0.5 db in relation to 0db. That’s what I mean when I say that. I recognize there is a possibility for what I said to have been misinterpreted. I don’t doubt there are cartridges that claim such a response accuracy. I’m only questioning the reality.

i only hope those who visit this thread for specific cartridge listening feedback, and have to sift through all the ’other interesting things’, do eventually find what they seek.

tech talk has it’s function too, of course. but is it the meat? or beside the point?

for me it is clearly beside the point. actually acquiring and listening to cartridges is the hard part. while i respect apparent techie chops, it's not what get's me excited about hifi and music.

Dear @bonzo75  : Sorry to disturb you again but I re-read your posts and some information from your blog linked first by M Lavigne and unfortunatelly I can't find any single FACT/spec/measure that in any way could explain the FOUNDATION of all what you posted and that could change some of us opinions on that cartridge.

 

@mikelavigne , " then maybe understand the tech to see how it did what it did. "

Well that explain very clear our differences. My approach/common sense works different. 

R.

 

 

it seems like some prefer to debate design elegance, history, methods, materials, and measurement minutia instead of actual music playing performance. nothing wrong with that unless you are actually wanting to play music.

 i hope that some involved in those interesting musings do have a chance to hear the DaVa at some point as i would be interested in their listening perceptions about it. to me i want to first hear it to see if i like it, then maybe understand the tech to see how it did what it did. not the reverse first.

Dear @bonzo75  :  " What you like or Leif or me or any one else is not under questioning in any way and it’s the subject of this kind of dialogue:

" zero tolerance " means that I just do not care of any cartridge with a FR deviation between 4db-6db ..."

 

that's not " truism " as is not either the Duelund heavy colorations, even in Agon tech-talk forum you can read a dedicated thread with almost all what an audiophile needs to know about, find out a time to read it all the posts. For the good or wrong is a learning cap thread:

BEST HARMLESS/SIGNATURELESS SPEAKERS CAPACITORS.

 

Those 4db-6db cartridge deviation is a fact as are what you can read about caps.

If facts are " truism " for you no problem with me, it's you who look that way.

No, Agon is not wbf .

 

It's weird for say the least that the time I was posting there you did not try to have a debate with any of my posts and suddenly you came here with a lot of information maybe thinking that with that the FR of that CARTRIDGE WILL SHOWS " IT'S FLAT ". 

 

@lohanimal  , main difference is that there almost all is: " the proof is in the lestining " no matters what. The corrupted AHEE ( where all of us belongs " ) is whom teached exactly that.

 

R.

 

 

Sorry there is no point further debating with you, you will make what assumptions required in your post and state that as truism

Dear @bonzo75 : " enjoy realism as well as transparency to recordings, .."

even that your targets are different of mines. To stay with " transparency to recordings " we need " zero tolerance " that’s one of my personal targets .

 

" you are ignoring the fact that Leif, who started the DaVa thread on WBF, has a 7 watts sets driven full range horn system with very high resolution..."

That’s not the main issue with that cartridge and can see that you don’t get it in precise way.

What you like or Leif or me or any one else is not under questioning in any way and it’s the subject of this kind of dialogue:

" zero tolerance " means that I just do not care of any cartridge with a FR deviation between 4db-6db and a cartridges where the manufacturer just does not disclose at least the FR and compliance parameters.

 

" The DaVa apart from a great sound..."

nothing wrong with that because is what many of you like it. All of you like heavy colorations that does not comes in the recording. Btw, that gentleman in Norway with his horn/set system high resolution likes those colorations because in some ways he is accustomed with " colorations " his target is not " zero tolerance " due that the crossover speakers use one of the higher colored capacitor as Duelund and some others fancy/bs of caps. For me the name of audio " game " is more about knowledge level of each one of us than money and the first step is to fix our main targets that will defines which kind of " colorations " we like and each one of us tolerance levels about. Common sense is way important down there.

 

@mijostyn , thank’s because now I know that I was not to wrong when I posted that that cartridge is cantileverless design and I don’t know from where a gentleman here posted that can track at 90u.. I need to see that tracking measurement because there is not even the cartridge compliance.

 

R.

@lewm 

WBF also has some superb contributors - some are from the press and also people who often comment based on experience as opposed to theory.

Many are speaking as the Dava as mana from heaven. I understand the AT Art1000 follows many design traits with a modern spin - I heard one in a very revealing system and was taken aback with its ability to sound so neutral and accurate.

As such it may give the best of all worlds - big manufacturer - boutique (only 1 person can do the coils apparently) - modernised use of a good design

Dear @lewm : Manufacturer specs normally camefrom its measurements tests and normally any good cartridge  is flat in the @mijostyn  frequency range where at the 20hz to 20khz frequency extremes FR deviations are showed in almost all cartridges.

 

Now, that kind of cartridge FR measurements depends on which LP test was choosed for  and I can tell you that normally could be some  differences in the FR chart between to same model samples. Nothing is perfect in audio analog, always trade-offs.

 

R.

Dear @newtoncr  : Do not surprise me that for your " taste " the Lambda SL quality performance level is higher than the Ortofon one.

 

I own or owned and listened in other systems  almost all the Lyra cartridge models from the vintage Evolve but I do not have yet the opportunity to listen any Lambda level cartridge.

 

Btw, your Lyra is in the mijostyn " radar ".

 

R.

Some techy detail in this article

 

Seriously, Mijo, do you think there exists a cartridge that is within 0.5db between 100 and 12khz, in actual practice in a home system? I don’t.

What @mijostyn actually said was

Anything greater than +- 0.5 dB between 100 Hz and 12 kHz will influence the overall tonality of component.

And here is an example of a MC that meets these requirements - my Dynavector Karat Nova 13D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_QgHfUgWQw

 

 

 

 

Seriously, Mijo, do you think there exists a cartridge that is within 0.5db between 100 and 12khz, in actual practice in a home system? I don’t.

Oh, and right at this moment I am dreaming about the Kawasaki Z900 RS SE that should be along any day now. 

@mikelavigne , I am always interested in new equipment and alternative approaches.  My own personal approach to evaluating and procuring audio gear is different than yours. 

You do not need to be on in pins and needles. You like what you hear an am happy with the purchase. I would never go near a DAVA and don't care what it sounds like because I think it is a terrible design. We can both be comfortable with our own opinions.  

@mijostyn i guess we will all just have to be on pins and needles 🙄 until you hear a DaVa, since nothing anyone says about it matters to you. except it seems to be important somehow to you as you keep talking about it. probably dream about it, and have a picture of it on your bathroom mirror.

you never care what anyone ever says about hearing anything, so how is the DaVa any different in that way?

It is all apples and oranges and there are hundreds of varieties of each. Laminate  individual human bias over it all and you have a real mess, an undecipherable mess.  

Without knowing exactly what any individual is listening to it is impossible to interpret what they are describing when talking about any specific component. 

@mikelavigne , That DAVA frequency response curve has the resolution of a 15th century apple cart. Anything greater than +- 0.5 dB between 100 Hz and 12 kHz will influence the overall tonality of component. 

When any of us say they like the "sound" of any given component what we are most often referring to is it's tonality as reference by the system/room they happen to be listening to. It is amplitude response that most influences what we hear assuming distortion levels are low. 

@rauliruegas, apparently Darius Valiunas  was considering a cantileverless design but in reality his design effectively is that way. There is a yolk that his cantilever lies in directly behind the coils. This yolk controls the compliance of the system more so than anything happening at the fulcrum, but the effective mass of the "system" is still determined by the size of the mass and it's distance from that fulcrum. Regardless of what anyone hears this is a terrible design from that perspective. The quality of construction is also suspect from the pictures I have seen. I would never consider purchasing one, regardless of whatever anyone said about it.  I suspect it will just be another flash in the pan. 

@newtoncr 

Thanks. I have heard Lyra's on the SME V/SME TT  on a friends system and did not think it was a great match compared to other cartridges on the same TT. 

Sounds like the Durand works better.

@dover 

the verisimo was mounted on a Durand tosca arm playing on a wave kinetic nvs reference turntable. The Lyra lambda was mounted on a sme v arm on a sme 30 table . Swapping the cartridges made the Lyra lambda even better through my system. 

A couple more points to my previous post:

I have heard the AN IO field coild cart, also mentioned in my blog on an Italian trip write up. It was also briefly compared in another system with Etsuro Bordeaux and Decca London. The owner of the system, quite rightly, decided to retain his Decca London. WBF has the mention of an AN IO field coil owner who heard the DaVa and put his AN up for sale.

 

Keep in mind this is selling without push from dealers. This is a dealer nightmare, to have a cartridge that sells directly AND can be chosen over their retail product. Carts as a commodity, many are bought without listening, based on price and hype. They often sell at discounts to retail, carts like Lyra and Zyx are costly to retip (vdh, Red Sparrow are not), and eventually you have to either exhaust their life or sell used with some loss. The DaVa apart from a great sound is something I welcome as being sold without retail margin, show margins, reviewer sample cost. That itself makes purchase for trial a no-brainer. I can totally understand if someone is apprehensive of trying a 16k retail cart even if it has great reviews. 

Hi Raul,

 

You said my target is very clear from report on Mike’s system. I don’t think so. As then you go on to say “I like the natural color, power, transients speed, dynamic, rythm and the like of live MUSIC seated at nearfield position where between you and the MUSIC sources exist only the AIR.”

 

Before the pandemic lockdown I used to do around 50 concerts a year in London. Many London halls were frequented – Barbican and Southbank for orchestra, the same and Wigmore hall for smaller scale, sometimes King’s Place, and my favorite, Sheldonian at Oxford which is a 1600 century hall. I have also been to other halls in Europe. I have also watched rock bands indoors and outdoors.

 

My target is to play various recordings from RCA, EMI, Telefunken originals, some reissues from classic records, speakers corner, ERC, and enjoy realism as well as transparency to recordings, i.e. different LPs should give different feel of the concert, there should not be a system imposed feel of all concerts sounding the same.

 

My main system target is SETs horns, and some very simple small systems as well which are good value for money. I feel that with expensive stuff, price has to be earned, not demanded like many pieces of gear do these days.

 

Mike’s system is an exception to the kind of systems I like. He is the hardest working audiophile I know. I often tell people if you simply take Mike’s recommendations and add it in your system, it might not work for you like it does for him. If someone wants to replicate Mike’s system, they will need to buy his room and hire him as audio butler.

 

That said, you are ignoring the fact that Leif, who started the DaVa thread on WBF, has a 7 watts sets driven full range horn system with very high resolution TAD 4003 drivers (one up from what is used in the half a million Cessaro), and has DIY unshielded silver cables (only phono cable shielded). He has no phono, just a SUT, directly into a TVC passive preamp. As simple as it gets.

 

Another, has an EMT 927 with internal phono, class D amp, and low priced Alfred Bokrand arm. Nothing fancy. There are a 100 Davas in the market already over the last 2 years, and queue has grown from 4 months when Mike bought, to 6 to 8 when I ordered, to 1 year now. The more the people hear, the more they are buying.

 

Regarding Lyra, they are neutral but Lyra was never musical for me till the Lambda, it usually sacrificed decay to create illusion of speed. Yes the Olympos was musical but colored. Lambda seems to be the right balance.

@dover I can see where your interception is coming from, it is better to assess with all available ancillaries that are in use and can be interfaced with, prior to making a final decision.

I do not use Cartridges of this Pedigree or Monetary Value but do use Ortofon as my preferred Brand, especially ones which will have earlier generation technologies similar to the most recent models available.

My experiences have led me to remove Tonearms from use that have been perceived as impeding my choice of Cartridge. Keeping the Tonearm in use that enabled the Cart' to be perceived as performing at its most attractive for my needs.

This line of investigation if all items of interest are available to be tried out within a short time of duration between demonstrations is worthwhile.

@newtoncr 

 the Lyra was a clear winner over the ortofon verisimo. Music had more layers , more detail , much larger soundstage and much more dynamics. The verisimo was softer and much smaller( the sound stage ) and lacked the various hues and layers the Lyra revealed .

Did you compare the cartridges on the same tonearm - run both the Ortofon & Lyra on both tonearms or are you describing the Kuzma/Lyra vs the SME/Ortofon ?

@rauliruegas IMO for my taste , the Lyra was a clear winner over the ortofon verisimo. Music had more layers , more detail , much larger soundstage and much more dynamics. The verisimo was softer and much smaller( the sound stage ) and lacked the various hues and layers the Lyra revealed . The Lyra sounded more like my reel tape machine  playing 1/2” dubs at 30ips. 

Dear @newtoncr  : From several years nowI don't only like the SME 30 but I recomended along your V tonearm that I owned.

 

Now, if it's true that the Kondo silver wires are and have top quality performance the silver internal V wires are really good and perhaps the lower capacitance internal silver wires.

 

Now, Audio Note UK started there with on sale the AN Kondo audio items and latter on no more Kondo from Japan but they knew everything about Kondo designs and build quality and parts devices and talking of tonearm rewiring the ones by AN UK are second to none and " inexpensive " against the Kondo ones. You can read here about and I can tell you too that its IC cables are first rate too:

 

audionote.co.uk/wires

 

I own those wires and fulfill my targets. Many times wires and IC cables are system dependent but these silver rewiring Audio Note are not.

 

Btw, Lyra is one of my high always welcomed cartridge but the Olympos that as his designer posted time ago is " colored ".

In this forum there are several audiophiles that like Lyra and Ortofon too, me between them, and @mijostyn  just bougth the new MC diamond but before he decided for the MC Diamond he was behind the Verissimo and not only he and me but other gentlemans would like to know your first hand experiences with. Of course that that is appreciated.

 

R.