Fremer's Single-leg panel is absolute tweak bs

@kingrex

Rex post + 1

Just to clarify a few points.

1) you said:

Mikes stand alone structure only has sleeping and bathing so its not a residence. As such he does not need AFCI. There is no kitchen in the listening room so he does not need GFCI. Technical power 60/60 is not legal in a residence, but it can be used in non residential structures.

To be clear GFCI protection is required on a 60/120V symmetrical power system (so called 60/60V Balanced Power System) for the branch circuit wiring. I know you know that,... but it needed to be pointed out here on this thread for the DIYers.

Oh by the way my reference to AFCI branch circuit protection was just another code violation IF a hard wired 60/120V symmetrical power system was installed in a residential dwelling unit, as I am sure you know. NEC code care less if it’s an audio room.

2) You said:

Per the OP post, the grounding I did is code minimum, but applied very well.

It should be pointed out NEC only requires, as you know, a rod to soil resistance of 25 ohms or less. As you know that is way too high. IEEE the Emerald Book recommends 5 ohms or less. (For commercial/industrial facilities). Far better for lightning protection than 25 ohms. If I remember correctly in the Fremer video someone saying the grounding electrode system soil resistance was a 1/2 ohm... Outstanding! That’s probably better than a lot of industrial facilities in this country.

3) Finally This. You said:

Ground the house properly and you will shunt most noise to earth.

Here I will have to disagree. The Earth does not possess some magical mystical power that sucks nasties from an audio system.

I used to think as you do that noise can be diverted to mother earth until I was called out on it on AA many years ago. Well I had to prove I was right, correct? Good luck proving it...

I’ll leave you with this:

Grounding Myths

From Henry W. Ott’s "Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering"

3.1.7 Grounding Myths

More myths exist relating to the field of grounding than any other area of electrical engineering. The more common of these are as follows:

1. The earth is a low-impedance path for ground current. False, the impedance of the earth is orders of magnitude greater than the impedance of a copper conductor.

2. The earth is an equipotential. False, this is clearly not true by the result of (1 above).

3. The impedance of a conductor is determined by its resistance. False, what happened to the concept of inductive reactance?

4. To operate with low noise, a circuit or system must be connected to an earth ground. False, because airplanes, satellites, cars and battery powered laptop computers all operate fine without a ground connection. As a mater of fact, an earth ground is more likely to be the cause of noise problem. More electronic system noise problems are resolved by removing (or isolating) a circuit from earth ground than by connecting it to earth ground.

5. To reduce noise, an electronic system should be connected to a separate “quiet ground” by using a separate, isolated ground rod. False, in addition to being untrue, this approach is dangerous and violates the requirements of the NEC (electrical code/rules).

6. An earth ground is unidirectional, with current only flowing into the ground. False, because current must flow in loops, any current that flows into the ground must also flow out of the ground somewhere else.

7. An isolated AC power receptacle is not grounded. False, the term “isolated” refers only to the method by which a receptacle is grounded, not if it is grounded.

8. A system designer can name ground conductors by the type of the current that they should carry (i.e., signal, power, lightning, digital, analog, quiet, noisy, etc.), and the electrons will comply and only flow in the appropriately designated conductors. Obviously false."

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Lets keep this narrowly focused on discussions of 1 leg or 2 to a panel, and best practices. 

I've always liked the logic of using two legs to share (and halve) the current load, as it pertains to larger motors in a residential circuit.  Each leg is much farther below it's theoretical current limit.  Not sure if or how any of that translates to sound quality, but the reduced current flow per leg still makes sense to me regardless of the application. 

Jea, I have measured with a meter a reduction in noise in a panel when its grounded properly. I have eliminated certain noise. Yes you can shunt noise when you ground properly. Grounding is far more technical than a rod in the earth.

But look.  I'm a business.  Its my sole income now.  I laid off all my employee and stopped doing restaurants and houses.  For more reasons than just being a crazy audiophile.  If you want to really understand grounding you need to do the work . Take the Lyncole classes.  Read the Sores books.  Read the Morrison books.  Watch the Holt Video.  Talk to other people who do as I do.  There are a couple others out there.  For the most part they do recording studios.  There are business dedicated to grounding and they get big money to tell data center and hospitals, labs, military etc how to ground properly.  Finally, go out and apply what you learn.  Measure it.  You can get rid of noise if you do it right.  This idea you can't is people not doing it right. 

If you really want to scratch your head, prove to an engineer a ground box like Entreq or Altaira reduce noise.

I I'm not an electrical engineer or electrician just a audio guy trying to get better sound. This is my take!

Save money by dumping the step down transformer as it adds more noise. In the USA residential single phase split 120/240 Volts, 240 Volts is more efficient then 120 Volts. 240 Volts is half the amps as 120 Volts. 240 Volts is balanced power right from the pole transformer to your house. In my opinion your audio gear will sounded better on 240 Volts then 120 Volts. 😎

Mike

@kingrex said:

I have measured with a meter a reduction in noise in a panel when its grounded properly. I have eliminated certain noise.

I have no doubt in what you say. But show me the circuit. Here is the circuit as I see it.

The EGC, IF used, >>> to the service equipment grounded conductor >>> to the neutral of the split phase secondary winding of the power transformer. There, some, of the noise energy is dissipated in the winding in the form of heat.

Mother Earth is not involved.... Show me the circuit if you think it is. Please provide any credible proof from someone like Henry Ott, as an example, who says noise can be "shunted", diverted, to mother earth. Show me the circuit if you think it is. You said, Quote: "Read the Sores books. Read the Morrison books." .... How about a quote, a White Paper, of Morrison’s that will backup your thinking.

Those in authority need to stop telling audiophiles noise on a circuit ground can be shunted, diverted, to earth. I still read current posts where audiophiles are driving a rod outside their audio room using it to replace the branch circuit EGC. Dangerous as Hell... And in the case of a bolted ground fault it will never trip the circuit breaker in the panel. Never...Works great for hunting fish worms though.

Finally this:

If you really want to scratch your head, prove to an engineer a ground box like Entreq or Altaira reduce noise.

I know nothing about the Entreq...

What I know about the Shunyata ALTRAIRA Ground System I learned from watching the video I posted above. What Gabriel has built, and his explanation of how it works, makes sense to me. He uses individual filters that are connected, to each ground post on the back of the box that are then connected to a common ground conductor. So all the filtered grounding posts are connected together.

He has two boxes. One for the Chassis ground and one the signal circuit ground. NOTE no where in the video does he promote floating, disconnecting, the EGC from any audio equipment that uses it. If fact, as I remember from watching the video, He says, and rightly so, the electrical service connection to mother earth is for lightning protection. Not for, shunting, diverting, noise to earth...

He didn’t fully explain, unless I missed it, how he treats the chassis of Class II double insulated audio equipment where an EGC is not used. That equipment is different... That equipment the Signal ground and DC B -, is connected directly to the chassis. One mistake I caught was him saying tube equipment designers connect the signal ground and DC B - directly to the chassis. That’s not true. Some might, but not all.

What I did find interesting, if true, some equipment noise the rectifier(s) make in the DC power supply(s) circuit designers dump it onto the chassis. Maybe Gabriel could show them how to install a filter between the signal ground, DC B - , and chassis. That would solve a lot problems.

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Jim

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