Gruv Glide - Do you use it?

... I think it is a marvel on the VG++ and worse condition LP's that most of us have in our collection. Does knock back a lot of hash and background noise.

IOW, it works by leaving a lubricating residue, which in addition to smoothing over any groove damage necessarily smothers low level detail and dynamics too.

I've heard those effects and I'd never use GG on any properly cleaned LP, which is the only kind I play. Of course I also don't play VG+ records. To me, if a record's worth playing, it's worth finding an undamaged copy. If a record has only mild damage then I'd rather listen through that and hear all of the music. If I'm willing to hear a lower rez version in order to get silent backgrounds, I can play the CD. To each their own of course.

Doug - of course, to each his own, but I really can't see how the force of a stylus in the grove, which, considering the contact area, is probably measured in tons per square inch, could be "impeded" by anything. Is it possible that the perceived loss of low level detail is caused by the removal of high-frequency hash? Sort of like removing the tape hiss from a tape - some perceive that as a loss of detail. Again, this is just discussion. If you don't like the sound, that's all that matters.

07-15-13: Dougdeacon

I've heard those effects and I'd never use GG on any properly cleaned LP, which is the only kind I play. Of course I also don't play VG+ records. To me, if a record's worth playing, it's worth finding an undamaged copy. If a record has only mild damage then I'd rather listen through that and hear all of the music. If I'm willing to hear a lower rez version in order to get silent backgrounds, I can play the CD. To each their own of course.

Doug, I agree with your assessment on everything except what I am understanding that you only play mint records.....you must miss a lot of music on vinyl which is btw the only format I play...

I really can't see how the force of a stylus in the grove, which, considering the contact area, is probably measured in tons per square inch, could be "impeded" by anything.

Hmmm... try diving off the Golden Gate Bridge. The landing is softer than Gruv Glide, it's just water. You'll hit the water with a force of tons/square inch, but I guarantee your progress will be "impeded" long before you reach the rocky bottom. ;-)

Seriously, if the stylus isn't deflected by GG residue, please explain how GG masks the sound of groove damage (I believe we agree that it does).

Is it possible that the perceived loss of low level detail is caused by the removal of high-frequency hash?

No. Low level musical detail and HF hash sound completely different.

GG works by coating tiny irregularities in the groove walls with a residual layer. It's true that this residue doesn't "know" whether any particular irregularity is due to rough vinyl, damage from a previous play or HF detail and microdynamics recorded by the cutting head - all tiny irregularities are coated equally. How audible this is depends on the thickness of the residue and the resolving ability of the system.

My own (very clean, goo-less) LPs do have slightly more HF hash than less clean LPs (with or without GG). This is because my stylus sees nothing but bare vinyl, warts and all. However, neither I nor any visitor has ever confused groove rush or tape hiss with the HF microdynamics and harmonics that are intrinsic to music. They sound completely different. (To be fair, I've heard systems where this is harder to distinguish.)

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@Pops - my tastes happen to run mostly to classical and ancient music. Finding mint LPs in these genre is pretty easy. I agree that it's harder to find mint LPs of rock music (for example). My approach wouldn't work so well for rock listeners, so I shouldn't have stated it as a blanket approach for all. Apologies.

As for listening to only vinyl, doesn't that guarantee that you'll miss a lot of music? Lots of material is never released on vinyl at all.

Well said Andy,well said.