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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
bydlo
142 posts
 
Hi Halcro,
Thank you for your explanations. Contrary to you I feel quite ok with KorfAudio mesurement techniques. Impulse excitation is a completely standard method in vibroanalysis (the usual knuckle test is a simple version of it ;) That his results may not correlate with listening is another story of course. BTW, the weirdest hammers I’ve seen where in vibration labs - so called impact hammers with coax cable sticking out of them :) One of the basic tools.
Do I see correctly that you use Yamamoto ebony with LDR? There is another A’gon fellow reporting better results using LDR with Yamamoto than (the lighter) Orsonic:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/arche-headshell-with-london-reference-cartridge-fantastic-res...
Structure-borne Sound Transmission is the single most damaging phenomenon to vinyl playback but suspended decks cannot protect against the 1-10 Hz Structure-Borne resonances.
I’m sure your active Herzan or Accurion does :)
I have listened to the LDR on all three tonearms around the DD Victor TT-101 and the ’sound’ in my room (and headphones) is similar to what you are hearing on the Raven.
Frogman however, and many other listeners to the videos, are quite impressed with the sound from the LDR 😃

Ok, thank you, so the TT and suspension is not much of a factor here - seems 88D is just inherently more transparent than LDR. BTW, I am myself too quite impressed with LDR and considering it for my system is what has brought me here :) But that 88D is in your videos more impressive for my ears. If only I could get one..

Cheers,b
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Thanks for the Link Bydlo....
I hadn't seen that Thread although in many Threads on many Forums, it's surprising how much of a consensus there is, for the FR-64s/66s tonearms being the best arms for the Deccas (particularly the LDR).
You're correct that I did have my LDR mounted in the YAMAMOTO HS-1AS EBONY HEADSHELL. Here you can see it mounted on the DV-507/II around the Victor Direct Drive.
It sounded fine in that headshell but sounded even better in the YAMAMOTO HS-4S CARBON FIBER HEADSHELL which is where it remains.
I hadn't heard of the 'match' with the Arche Headshell so I might have to investigate....🤔
And yes.....the SONY XL88D is so good, it makes even the LDR take a 'backseat' 🪑
But stay tuned.......
There may be a LOMC cartridge I have that cost $250 NOS, which could come close to the 88D 🤫
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Ry Cooder sounded better on the Raven. The music was more coherent. The Victor was brighter but it was a mess.
Dire Straits however was the opposite. Dull and plodding on the Raven, lively and musical on the Victor.
Interesting comments Noromance....🤔
I wonder if anyone else also hears it like this?
I personally, prefer the WE-8000/ST tonearm on both samples...🙃
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Encouraged by the positive results yielded with the heavy FR-S3 headshell on the SAEC WE8000/ST tonearm, I wondered if EVERY cartridge would benefit from this headshell 🤔

An unexpected discovery in my listening experiences has been the JMAS MIT 1 LOMC Cartridge which was a slightly modified Coral mc81 from the late '80s with the first true VdH diamond fitted on beryllium cantilever available in the States.

MIT 1 ON CARBON FIBER HEADSHELL

MIT 1 ON FR-S3 HEADSHELL
Perhaps slightly unfair comparison due to the increased volume level on the S3 together with the better recording technique....but it seems to sound better on the S3 headshell?

MIT ON CARBON FIBER HEADSHELL

MIT ON FR-S3 HEADSHELL
Fairer comparison here where I'm struggling to hear much difference between the two...?
Perhaps Dover could be enticed to see if he can hear any.....?

All help and comments greatly appreciated 😃
dover
2,237 posts
 
Halcro -
I am not sure if you are having me on.
There is significantly more surface noise with the carbon fiber headshell.
It is possible the VTA is not the same on both shells.
Listening to both this is what I hear ( on ear buds ) -
On violins with the carbon fiber you can hear more of the acoustic recording space of the whole orchestra, whereas with the FRS3 the leading violin is crisper and cleaner, more vibrant but with less acoustical information. In some parts the cf on violins becomes quite screachy, compared to the FRS3 less so.
From the midrange down to mid bass the FRS3 appears to have better articulation, and again fuller and more vibrant. The carbon fiber sounds a bit congealed through the upper bass to midrange.  On some passages the cf presents a clearer leading edge in the mid bass, but the more vibrant FRS3 conveys better tempo and clearer presentation of space in the lower end to my ears, and ultimately more transparency in this region.
For me the FRS3 is more musically listenable because the better presentation of tempo in the lower ranges underpins the musical flow and enjoyment.

How does this compare with your in room experience.

As an aside, when you use a heavy headshell, you will be altering the counterweight to compensate for the increased mass at the headshell end. The end result is that you are adding mass loading to the knife edge bearings, so the changes to sound will be a combo of cartridge/headshell resonances, inceased effective mass and most importantly increased load on the jewelled knife edge bearings. I know that some Japanese audio fetishists would add mass over the bearing on unipivots/knife edge bearings to improve bottom end without altering the effective mass - like dumbells each side of the bearings.
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