High sensitivity (99) with mid powered (50 to 100 wpc/tube) amps?


Sorry: my thread title should have read "high sensitivity speakers with mid powered tube amps?"

Are there draw backs or ramifications to running a pair of speakers which list the sensitivity at 99 with amps producing 50 wpc? (Specifically I was looking at a pair of open box KLIPSCH - Forte IV) and specifically I would be driving them with a Cary V12 rated at 50 wpc in triode and 100 wpc in ultralinear. (I know that I have the power to drive them, but I am thinking that they are usually paired with lower powered, such as SET, amps, and I was wondering if they might not be suitable to be paired with a beefier push pull amp.)

What interests me about these speakers in that they seems relatively small (HWD:: 35.75" x 16.63" x 13") and they would be near-field in a quite small room. Would they be a good speaker for near field? (I note that they are pretty low to the ground, tweeter wise) Also I note that they are biwireable, so I could continue to use my current runs of shotgun biwirie.

Also, are the diaphragm compression driver that they list what is also known as horns? And as it is a 3-way speaker with 12" LF drivers, I was thinking that I could retire my ancient sub.

Doing some reading/searches through posts & users say close to the wall is okay (my B&W 805s are close to 4 feet from wall) so that & no sub would make my small room bigger. Is there an "in your face shout" from horn drivers?

Thanks in advance for any input on this.

immatthewj

Thanks @hilde45  , I think that one of the sites that I did a quick pass through was the Klipsch forum and I am not sure what the original thread topic I clicked on was, but I remember a bit of an argument about whether the Forte IV would be too much bass for a small room and whether the ported Heresy IV would be better.  This consideration is applicable to me, because I am listening, presently, in a quite small room at near field.  That is one of the nice things about the sub I would like to get out of the equation, I can tune the bass to my liking.  However, I am thinking that the bass from the Forte IV would be of much higher quality.

I really would love to upgrade my speakers if I can find the right pair at the right price (and these Forte IVs just about meet the latter category), and I do appreciate MDs audition period policy, but I'd like to think that I am going to like them, as I do not think I am going to like shipping 144 Lb.s of speakers back to Chicago.

Anyway, good advice on the Klipsch forum . . . I am going to spend some time there.

@jc4659 , I actually wasn’t worried about not enough power, I was worried that too much power might not be compatible with a sensitivity of 99? My ancient B&Ws are listed as being 87, and my Cary has no problem at all driving them in 50 wpc triode, and especially now that they are in a real small room.

As far as how near field it is? I went back to measure, but I recently uprooted almost EVERYTHING to get to something else, so with stuff all over the floor, I cannot even see where I marked the spots to return my speaker stands to. (I think I am going to get that restored as my next project today.)

But anyway, for dimensions, the front of my drivers are about 3’ from the front wall (which from what I have read of the Forte IV so far is no problem as everyone seems to be putting them a lot closer to the wall than that) and the "polite" B&Ws and I site in an equilateral triangle with all the points being about 4’ from each other. (And I do note that the Fortes don’t have a much bigger footprint than the B&Ws.)

Which I realize is way close, but life is full of compromises and it is what it is. However, with well recorded/mastered source material and the lights off (which is how I always listen) the speakers and walls disappear. With poorly recorded &/or source material, the effect makes me almost nauseous. Some day we may be back in the living room, but I do not see that day happening real soon.

Keep in mind the passive radiator used in the FIV; they need to be experimented with the distance to the rear wall. I find the design to be too low, so a base of some kind can be used to elevate them, or you can create a tilt up elevating the F from the front. They have a very different presentation to the B&W. I am a bit surprised actually that the change of speakers has come up since the power cable discussion was started, not too long ago. Matt, do not take this the wrong way, please, but I see you as just another listener who is a bit lost in the direction of where you want to take your music listening experience. Truth be told, you are not alone, as I communicate with many people, and this is very common. I love the Klipsch Heritage line, and I feel the CWIV should be the way to go. Also, to get them to be problem free, you would do well to dampen the horns with a Dynamat type product. I am very sorry if my words are taken hurtfully. Last thing. Most people listening to recorded music today through a hifi rig (making them an audiophile), are listening for / to the wrong things, ime. They do not want to accept the recording for what it is, which is a collaboration of many various elements that make it very imperfect. But one thing for sure is on our recordings; the "musicianship". So, while many folks want to hear more "space" of a stage, more "tone" from a violin, more "sound" beyond and around the actual boxes / panels, they miss the integrity of the music itself. This, is my experience. I love my system (although I use many different power amplifiers through rotation). My system conveys to me that one most important quality I look/listen for. That connection "with the musicians". Again, I apologize. Good luck my friend. Always, MrD.

Heresy are great but Forte IV are much better.  I replaced my Heresy III with the Forte and they give you a lot more low end with the same footprint.  Heresy need a sub to sound like a full range speaker.  

I am very sorry if my words are taken hurtfully.

Not at all, @mrdecibel . I value your input!

As far as my questions regarding power cords and my interest in speakers:

back when I bought the SA10 the salesman from MD told me that it would really benefit from a different power cord. I won’t say that I took that with only a grain of salt, but it wasn’t high on my list. I learn a lot from simply reading posts on this site, and a while ago the subject of digital and RF came up, and I started to put 2 and 2 together (hopefully i did?) and I thought, "Ohhhh, maybe the salesman was not just trying to sell me a cord I do not need." I mean, the better the machine (and I bought that machine because it is, in theory, no slouch, and the 3 pieces of digital separates I was using dated back to the ’90s and I felt they must be obsolete) the more something like a power cord might make it perform. Kind of like a performance engine . . . do certain things to a real dog and you are wasting time and money because a true dog is never going to perform regardless of what you do, but make certain changes to a real thorough bread, and the difference it can make is remarkable. Not all engines, for example, react the same way to headers. I was thinking the relationship to digital and power cords might be the same.

As far as speakers: that subject has been on my mind for a long time. I’ve posted numerous queries about speakers that have came to my attention on MD and when a speaker thread comes up, if the speakers are in my ballpark I frequently ask questions.

My present speakers are B&W 805s, but they are the ancient Matrixes that I bought going on 30 years ago. As much as I like them, I cannot help but think that they are the weak link in my system. And as much as I like what I get from my system in my compromised room, I cannot help but think updating my speakers MIGHT be like night and day. 30 years ago when I bought those B&W 805s they replaced a pair of NHT monitors, and the more and more I listened to the 805s the more and more I liked to listen, and at the time the $1600 list seemed like a lot for speakers (30 years ago) but I was totally okay with it. Those speakers did everything for me that I thought speakers could do. I have a pair of 1980s vintage re-ribboned Magnepans I bought from a friend back in ’01, and I never could get those Maggies to perform to the level of those old 805s.. It could be that those Magnepans are not as forgiving as the 805s when it comes to placement (I’ve had them in both my living room and my present small listening room) but regardless, I always wanted to hook my 805s back up. About 20 years ago, when I was a different person, I would switch my amp to ultralinear and I’d play music so loud that the picture I was seeing in my soundstage was like a balloon getting bigger and bigger and bigger . . . and it was clean but so loud I thought that they (the 805s) might explode. OR on other nights I’d switch them to triode and listen to them whisper. ((Prior to my present Cary amp I had a pair of unreliable ARC VTM 120s I drove them with, and I remember listening to Lou Reed’s (live red book) Rock And Roll Animal (specifically Intro then Sweet Jane then Heroin) so loud it scared me.

All that was to say that once upon a time I was very happy with the 805s, but to repeat: I now think that they are probably the weakest link in my system. Well, maybe the room is, but I can address the speakers way way way easier than the room.As far as listening to music. All I know for sure is that when I get the right CD in (and usually it is a SACD) there is air and bloom and detail and depending upon the recording the soundstage extends beyond the wall;

(I always listen in the dark)

and I hear textures and inflections in the vocalists voice and it makes me very happy. However, with what I feel is a source of lesser quality, it is hard to listen to. As an example, the last SACD I listened to before I disconnected and dismantled was Jacintha covering James Taylor on a SACD titled, if I remember correctly, Fire And Rain. By the time it had played through, my eyes were literally moist.

However, I cannot help but thinking that my ears were missing something listening to those old B&Ws and that I could be even happier if I could provide my ears with that something via different speakers.

Again, I apologize.

And again: are you kidding? There is absolutely NOTHING to apologize for!!!