Wow, controversy here. Still, I appreciate your thoughtful insights and before I give you my thoughts on what you've written I've believed for over two decades that the ultimate cleaning method for records would be ultra pure water in conjunction with ultrasonic action. This would require a total redesign of cleaning machines and would be a slow process and therefore would need to be totally automatic and hugely expensive.
I can't take direct issue with anything you've posted except in a practical sense. To explain fully I offer real world experience collecting and playing vinyl for 40+ years. Born in 1950 and beginning my active collecting of records with the British invasion in 1962, I was fortunate to have a family friend in the radio business teach me the proper handling of my records and instilled in me the fear of allowing others to even touch them. My family respected this. This friend also introduced me to the original Watts record care products at the time and later to inner and outer record sleeves as they emerged on the market. So, my original purchases enjoyed every opportunity to remain in as good a condition as possible without being left sealed, stored and rotated on a regular basis.
My wife and I married in 1973 and on our honeymoon purchased a generic pressing of Duane Allman's "Laid Back" which has proven to be one of our most played records. Without exaggeration it has been played at least 1500 times. At least side "A" at any rate. I've gone through Watts, Discwasher and just about every other cleaning product through the years and in the late 70's paid a fairly hefty price to my local audio salon to clean all my albums with a Kieth Monks machine, the chemistry of which I havn't a clue. Since buying my own RCM I've experimented with numerous cleaners until I found those products I'm most happy with. Many of my LP's have been exposed to nearly every product I've ever used. I've drawn heavily upon my experience as a mechanical designer for the industrial food industry. No chemical background here, just the application of good common sense through experience gained. My superiors were all PHD's in chemical engineering and would explain anything I asked about my desire to properly care for my vinyl and they introduced me to the cleaning action of pure water, the universal solvent, and its aggressive action. This was in the early to mid 80's. I've given thoughtful consideration to the proper use of current production RCM's and my practices are somewhat different than the ones recommended by the manufacturers. Simply put, I vacuum more and use more steps as well as greater amounts of fluid.
I cannot take issue with your comments about alcohol and enzymes in a scientific sense. You're probably right. But in a practical sense I liken their use to driving a car past some plutonium laying in the median of the interstate. Pass it by at 75 mph (yeah, that's legal here in Idaho) and the exposure is minimal and will be unlikely to cause you any harm. Stop, pick it up and fondle it for too long and you can certainly predict the harm that will occur. The exposure times used in cleaning a record are short and if done correctly the chemistry, IMHO, is totally removed, or to an extent which is so minimal as to be totally removed.
Back to the Greg Allman album. It's dead silent and in spite of the generally held belief that records wear out through repeat playings, to my ears, in my system, I hear every nuance it has to offer. Remember, it, as well as a lot of my collection has been cleaned numerous times by various products. Nearly all of my records are similar in their condition, even records bought used and very, very old. There is NO crackling, additional surface noise or sonic degradation that I can detect. Even these are remarkably quiet. Not to brag, just to state a fact, many folks having SOTA digital systems have been exposed to my records, listening to a mixed bag of their choice of recordings, from early pressings, through domestic generics and current audiophile pressings. Many have subsequently entered the world of analog through the experience BECAUSE it dusts the best of even the finest SACD's and the lack of surface noise is what pushed them over the edge.
Without cleaning the boulders that are left to be pushed around by the stylus cause great harm since the mold release compounds do not allow them to be removed by simple brushing. Vinyl experiences a near melt down on playing because of forces approaching two tons per square inch. It doesn't take much imagination to visualize rocks being pushed around by a diamond in a soft compound and the real world damage potential. An unclean stylus can cause even worse damage. I cannot emphasize how much I do not agree with your post here. It simply doesn't apply in the real world and your suggestion, based on my seasoned "real world" experience, is not serving this community well at all.
My record collection represents a huge investment on my part and if I were to sell it one at a time for market value now I would have zero, I repeat, zero returns based on a NM description. I never purchased this music for investment purposes, only for my own personal enjoyment and I paid retail for the vast majority of what I own. If the possible degradation eventually shows up years down the road I don't care one whit and just like so many theories versus empirical evidence, no one will ever know if degradation occurs from the cleanings as you advise against or whether it's the result of the natural aging process of vinyl. These discussions, if they are ever held, will happen long after we both have left this planet irrespective of how young YOU are. This software has remainded faithful to me and shows no evidence of the fears that may be instilled here.
The science behind your post is without issue in IMO. But, if only taken to an illogical extreme. The real world again differs from the fears of the theorists as is so often the case in this life. I clearly hear the benefits of cleaning new pressings and will continue to do so without any worry whatsoever. There will be posters to this thread that differ with my opinion. That's okay. I don't care. What I do care about is those that are relatively new to analog and may take your advice. My offer is for anyone that wants to hear the so called damage done to my vinly is welcome to drop by and listen to its absence.
I can't take direct issue with anything you've posted except in a practical sense. To explain fully I offer real world experience collecting and playing vinyl for 40+ years. Born in 1950 and beginning my active collecting of records with the British invasion in 1962, I was fortunate to have a family friend in the radio business teach me the proper handling of my records and instilled in me the fear of allowing others to even touch them. My family respected this. This friend also introduced me to the original Watts record care products at the time and later to inner and outer record sleeves as they emerged on the market. So, my original purchases enjoyed every opportunity to remain in as good a condition as possible without being left sealed, stored and rotated on a regular basis.
My wife and I married in 1973 and on our honeymoon purchased a generic pressing of Duane Allman's "Laid Back" which has proven to be one of our most played records. Without exaggeration it has been played at least 1500 times. At least side "A" at any rate. I've gone through Watts, Discwasher and just about every other cleaning product through the years and in the late 70's paid a fairly hefty price to my local audio salon to clean all my albums with a Kieth Monks machine, the chemistry of which I havn't a clue. Since buying my own RCM I've experimented with numerous cleaners until I found those products I'm most happy with. Many of my LP's have been exposed to nearly every product I've ever used. I've drawn heavily upon my experience as a mechanical designer for the industrial food industry. No chemical background here, just the application of good common sense through experience gained. My superiors were all PHD's in chemical engineering and would explain anything I asked about my desire to properly care for my vinyl and they introduced me to the cleaning action of pure water, the universal solvent, and its aggressive action. This was in the early to mid 80's. I've given thoughtful consideration to the proper use of current production RCM's and my practices are somewhat different than the ones recommended by the manufacturers. Simply put, I vacuum more and use more steps as well as greater amounts of fluid.
I cannot take issue with your comments about alcohol and enzymes in a scientific sense. You're probably right. But in a practical sense I liken their use to driving a car past some plutonium laying in the median of the interstate. Pass it by at 75 mph (yeah, that's legal here in Idaho) and the exposure is minimal and will be unlikely to cause you any harm. Stop, pick it up and fondle it for too long and you can certainly predict the harm that will occur. The exposure times used in cleaning a record are short and if done correctly the chemistry, IMHO, is totally removed, or to an extent which is so minimal as to be totally removed.
Back to the Greg Allman album. It's dead silent and in spite of the generally held belief that records wear out through repeat playings, to my ears, in my system, I hear every nuance it has to offer. Remember, it, as well as a lot of my collection has been cleaned numerous times by various products. Nearly all of my records are similar in their condition, even records bought used and very, very old. There is NO crackling, additional surface noise or sonic degradation that I can detect. Even these are remarkably quiet. Not to brag, just to state a fact, many folks having SOTA digital systems have been exposed to my records, listening to a mixed bag of their choice of recordings, from early pressings, through domestic generics and current audiophile pressings. Many have subsequently entered the world of analog through the experience BECAUSE it dusts the best of even the finest SACD's and the lack of surface noise is what pushed them over the edge.
Without cleaning the boulders that are left to be pushed around by the stylus cause great harm since the mold release compounds do not allow them to be removed by simple brushing. Vinyl experiences a near melt down on playing because of forces approaching two tons per square inch. It doesn't take much imagination to visualize rocks being pushed around by a diamond in a soft compound and the real world damage potential. An unclean stylus can cause even worse damage. I cannot emphasize how much I do not agree with your post here. It simply doesn't apply in the real world and your suggestion, based on my seasoned "real world" experience, is not serving this community well at all.
My record collection represents a huge investment on my part and if I were to sell it one at a time for market value now I would have zero, I repeat, zero returns based on a NM description. I never purchased this music for investment purposes, only for my own personal enjoyment and I paid retail for the vast majority of what I own. If the possible degradation eventually shows up years down the road I don't care one whit and just like so many theories versus empirical evidence, no one will ever know if degradation occurs from the cleanings as you advise against or whether it's the result of the natural aging process of vinyl. These discussions, if they are ever held, will happen long after we both have left this planet irrespective of how young YOU are. This software has remainded faithful to me and shows no evidence of the fears that may be instilled here.
The science behind your post is without issue in IMO. But, if only taken to an illogical extreme. The real world again differs from the fears of the theorists as is so often the case in this life. I clearly hear the benefits of cleaning new pressings and will continue to do so without any worry whatsoever. There will be posters to this thread that differ with my opinion. That's okay. I don't care. What I do care about is those that are relatively new to analog and may take your advice. My offer is for anyone that wants to hear the so called damage done to my vinly is welcome to drop by and listen to its absence.