How To Field Questions About Your Audiophile Lifestyle...
| Post removed |
Whoa! What?! Watched black and white images of men on the moon? You couldn’t afford a color TV? NASA couldn’t afford the bandwidth to broadcast in color? Kubrick wanted the moon landing to look real by filming on the lot outside London in black and white? 👨🚀 Color video Apollo 11 at, https://youtu.be/G6A72ufn3l4 |
@prof @hifiman5 Fully agree with your posts. This world has been, and is still experiencing a technological storm advancing and building on itself. The commercialisation and advertising trickery to have us conform to what is represented on television as a societal norm is changing younger generations to look at what they are supposedly lacking, and trying to achieve over-expectations. HiFi shows are in our case no different. Look at all the eye candy being presented, which is totally out of reach of younger generations in most cases. Housing major populations is no different. Japan have single person pods for instance. The family home is becoming further out of reach here in The more settled (baby boomer era) adults have been brought up with different expectations and appreciation of the world around us. Indeed some of us predate the electronic calculator, watched black and white images of men on the moon, and PC's (IBM being the first commercial one) were non-existent. Riding a bike to school (or walking) was normal in any weather. Our audio pursuits, particularly those still using the turntable, are looked upon as staid by the new electronic generation. Our pursuit in finding solace in the music we play is as relaxing and fulfilling as a weekend of golf, but perhaps not as social. Is that why we scour these threads for social interaction? Yes at times perhaps this is true, and for myself and I assume for others, to learn from other's knowledge and experiences. Our's can be a challenging pursuit, perhaps more so than golf? (My older brother happens to be a Golf Professional, and his son also). We exchange opinions which amounts to taking the "piss" out of each other, all in good jest. Which is how it should be. |
@prof Thanks for your post. I agree with everything you said! Our audio "experiences" are very important to our quality of life but those experiences are made possible by purchasing the gear necessary to enable our listening. When things start to veer to the hardware side is for those who are routinely trading in a piece of gear for another and then another. Doesn't mean they are acting "wrong", it's just that they are more into the gear perhaps than the "experience" of enjoying the music for music's sake. |
hifiman5, You bring up a good distinction - one that is much more in the public air these days having been raised by studies of people’s happiness . I’ve briefly pondered it’s applicability to high end audio and can’t say I’ve come to a conclusion yet: Does our hobby exemplify the desire for "owning things/possessions?" On one hand, it IS about owning material objects that make us happy, and it does seem pretty materialism based - we lust after "things we want to own" e.g. the latest speaker, amplifier etc. On the other hand, we use these objects as "experience machines" - to generate different experiences for us each day. The experiences of listening to different music and musicians, the home equivalent of going to a concert. So it seems hard to pigeon hole which, if either, category - object or experience - our hobby falls in to. (I think my inclination, probably shared by others, is to spin it more towards the "experience" side of things, which may be true but may also be our wanting to ennoble our efforts. On the other hand, people rushing in to Best Buy to get the latest TV on sale could say the same thing - it brings them experiences of the different things they’ll watch - sports, movies etc. But then, things like Big Screen TVs and the like are typically held up as examples of the "shiny materialistic objects" of materialism. So if one is defending high end audio on the same ground as defending TVs or other material goods, it seems a bit more suspect). |
@mirolab Your golfer friend may be one of those individuals who prioritizes experiences/activities over possessions. There is definitely a movement in that direction among younger couples these days (it's the #1 reason for the tiny house movement). Almost every couple when interviewed about building a tiny house mentions that they don't want as great a percentage of their income going to a mortgage so they have money for weekend excursions/adventures. I can see both sides of this outlook on life. Just a question of your priorities, your way of enjoying life. For the record, I would be more like you, Mirolab. But perhaps it's time for a priority shift in the direction of questing more frequently after interesting experiences. |
I work with a bunch of engineers, but I'm the only audiophile. It's the running joke how many speakers I own, and I'll judge the cost of things in speaker-units. A manager that makes the most fun of me will go and play golf on the weekend at a nice club, and maybe spend $300-400. I tell him he's got nothing to show for it.... For that money, I'd have a nice little pair of speakers..... Even better if they were used! |
The interesting thing about TVs is people march right into Best Buy or Target 🎯 and knowing the maximum they will spend select the best looking TV picture in about two minutes, tops. No angst, no hand wringing. Most likely it’s a Samsung or LG. No, not the big curved 4K Samsung, silly, that’s way out of your budget! But when it comes to sound they’re not so sure what it is they’re hearing. Is it mediocre? Is it great? Is it high end? Therein lies the problem. Audiophiles are just not very confident where they fit into the whole picture, sound-wise. Not to mention it’s not so easy finding a truly great sounding system to compare to. Your “ideal sound” is only as good as the best system you ever heard. For some people it was a long time ago and they’ve been chasing the dragon ever since. |
My "Audiophile Lifestyle" is not so much different than many other lifestyles anymore, I just have a nicer stereo than most who I know. 20 years ago, I "wasted" too much time on BS like building speakers and wire and other audiophile doo-dads, buying and selling equipment, moving things around, etc., etc., you know the drill. I wish I had a do-over with that time. Interacting with the people in one's life is more important. I have tried to make up for that in the past 5-10 years. Most who ask about my set-up are genuinely interested and as long as I don't get weird with explanations, they get it and enjoy listening. |
I've been the "go-to" guy among my friends and acquaintances for advice on TVs and home theater, as they all know I'm in to that (or was, a lot more in years past). But I've given up because the same thing happens every time "What TV should I buy?" I ask them carefully about their budget, where it will be placed, what they watch etc, and suggest - without geeking out - possibilities. And inevitably they may as well not have talked to me because they just end up going to Best Buy and picking whatever seems like a good deal on sale. Many HT geeks have the same experience. People just want convenience, don't want to think too hard about any peripheral concerns they don't care about. I think people strictly in to high end audio experience less of these questions because far fewer people want to upgrade their stereo vs buying new TVs etc. |
It's tough to get anybody into this stuff...I've advised people about systems because they trust me to do that and that's always worked out fine, but in the typical dinner party group with my rig playing unobtrusive background stuff (no vocals...a strict rule for background sound at parties), people don't notice. Or they notice that "it sounds great" which it sort of doesn't in that context as it's just there in the background. If a friend wants me to demo something for them on my rig you tend to instantly annoy other guests who are appropriately talking to each other...in spite of any of this I've adjusted over the years to the glossy eyed disinterest from by most people trying to pay attention to my description of a tube, and now I really don't try very hard to explain this hobby....I get it. |
It’s interesting reading that some people seem to experience negativity about this hobby from people they know. That hasn’t been the case for me. Certainly lots of my friends and acquaintances are not audiophiles, but I can’t remember ever getting even a sideways look if the subject comes up, or when anyone visits and sees my system. They just see some nice looking speakers and sometimes comment on the nice looking speakers. And if someone is interested they listen and are usually blown way by the sound. They get it. Not that they’d buy such gear for themselves, but they aren’t left baffled as to why I get enjoyment out of it. (But then again, I don’t have a system with all the nutty looking stuff like cables on risers, every bit of gear exposed, vibrating discs and bowls around the room etc...Lots of audiophiles it seems want to see every bit of technology they paid for placed prominently in the room, so it ends up looking more like an electronics lab vs a domestic environment). I also deal with some reactions to my home theater set up, which is the same room as my two channel speakers/listening. I turned my living room, which is the most prominent room in the house, the first one you see when you walk in the door, into a home theater with a giant projection screen, surround sound etc. Complete re-build, with dropped felt-lined ceiling, automated 4 way masking, projector on rising lift, etc. It’s the kind of idea that would give many wives a heart attack (and almost did mine, I promised it would come out ok). But I think because I was so concerned with good aesthetics myself, I worked super hard to make it a beautiful, integrated looking room vs a "man cave" moved to the main floor. Turned out great and even other guys wives express admiration. So I think that, yes, when we start talking about what we paid for our gear it can start looking goofy to other people. But I don’t see why we have to do that. Then beyond that, it seems to me good aesthetics go quite a way to making our hobby look reasonable to non-audiophiles. |
Wolf, Where I used to live in northern Wisconsin, ( now reside in Az.) you were lucky if you could find a dozen audiophiles in a 100 mile radius. If you weren't a hunter or a fisherman, you were nothing. Most of those people up there looked at me as if I had some sort of disease when I told them what interested me. When enough people say to you that that kind of stuff makes you foolish or stupid, you ALMOST, and I say ALMOST start to believe it. When I was still working at a paper mill up there I would meet and work with some of these guys for the first time and when they asked me if I hunted or fished and then told them neither, that was the end of any conversation they would have with me for the 30 years I worked there. I thought it was a very sad situation with those people. I'm not trying to make myself out as a "bleeding heart" but that 30 years was sure a learning experience in life.... |
I work in a stressful job . I come home put on my system sit down and listen . The effect is rejuvenating . What ever money I spend on my system is well justified by its rewards . What other people think or say means nothing . In fact I feel sorry for them as they do not know what they are missing - Ignorance is bliss |
"It isn’t about snobbery. Years ago, I was like you. Wanting to tell the world how wonderful a good stereo system can sound. How relaxing and enjoyable to listen to your favorite music in High Fidelity. After a while, you get a little introverted when people would constantly tell you how foolish you are for wasting time and especially money on stereo equipment. At best they would try to be polite and say they were too busy to listen to music so intently or they could not afford it. When it comes to HEA, it’s hard to inspire the "flat earth" believers. IMO." +1! Most people are not "interested" in the system. Rather, they look to criticize what they don’t understand, either out of ignorance or envy. I no longer have any patience for that. It’s my money, I’ll spend it any way I want, and I don’t need to justify the cost of my system to anyone. My wife gives me carte blanche to buy what I want, no questions asked (even though I am judicious), so no friend or stranger is entitled to an explanation. It’s that simple. |
Does somebody actually get "introverted" from "when people would constantly tell you how foolish you are for wasting time and especially money on stereo equipment." Who are those people? That's a tough crowd ya got there. My experience over more than 5 decades of audio stuff (I was roped into running a 16 millimeter projector for a fearful teacher in the 5th grade...now I get overpaid to mix concert sound) is most people are so uninterested in audio freaks they don't care enough to be negative about it. "Your hobby is BAD Clem...hang your head!" |
aalenik It isn't about snobbery. Years ago, I was like you. Wanting to tell the world how wonderful a good stereo system can sound. How relaxing and enjoyable to listen to your favorite music in High Fidelity. After a while, you get a little introverted when people would constantly tell you how foolish you are for wasting time and especially money on stereo equipment. At best they would try to be polite and say they were too busy to listen to music so intently or they could not afford it. When it comes to HEA, it's hard to inspire the "flat earth" believers. IMO. |
As I pointed out recently - as a manufacturer - one should be cautious giving out any information as it can be used against you and we’ve seen a perfect example of that here recently with what’s his name, the Man from Glad. Moreover, many of the more esoteric and controversial tweaks and inventions happen out of the blue and there may be no obvious explanation acceptable to John Q Public or even to advanced audiophiles. |
More to the point... Why do you folks avoid answering questions about your hobby & your systems? Are you too busy - or too good - to deal with the uninformed masses?? I am just the opposite. If someone expresses interest, I'll answer any questions (yes, even stupid ones) and I'm always happy to demonstrate. No wonder the high-end is shrinking if you guys dismiss others with such disdainful snobbery. If they're interested, why not EDUCATE them a little? Inspire them! You might even make their lives a little better. |
mr_m"Supertweak...respectfully, what brand of components do you use in your system? I think you claimed this was too personal of information but really, it isn't. Many people do that on this forum. If people don't like what you have, so what??? You say you want to enlighten people about various tweaks of yours. Adding your component listing hurts no one..." Mr M I do not think you will be hearing from "Supertweak" because I think he fell behind in his school work and when his mommy found out he would have to repeat third grade again or else go to a summer school she took away his computer priviledges I think she was very surprised to read what he was posting here threatening people with lawyers and attorney generals and similiar threats. |
I had that discussion with some co-workers last year....My contention is that if someone spends 80K+ on a car...he's (normally a guy) James Bond...a stud, and to be envied...If a guy spends $1,500 on a turntable...he's a certified "Kook"...tells you everything you need to know about our society in 2018.... |
As to fielding questions about my system, to the non audiophile people, I pretty much keep quiet. When you tell these people what you have and what it costs you usually get a look of "a deer caught in headlights" expression. When I told my Stepson what my turntable costs, he said, "you must be crazy!" .....as he was purchasing a new $800 baseball bat. Cheers! |
Supertweak, I'm sure you went thru this in other threads, and my question isn't relevant to this thread, but respectfully, what brand of components do you use in your system? I think you claimed this was too personal of information but really, it isn't. Many people do that on this forum. If people don't like what you have, so what??? You say you want to enlighten people about various tweaks of yours. Adding your component listing hurts no one. IMO. I've been told, not in so many words, that my system was pretty much junk. Just ask Audiotroy. :-) |
Audiogon has lightened their post removal policy a little recently and I feel that's a good thing as I do argue with people from time to time. One newer guy simply used the removal process as a cowardly remedy to any challenging response if he felt they were "personal." Lame...but if anybody can't handle the back and forth regardless of the source or criticism, they likely should find a safe place to dwell and stay away from forums. |
Play them a solo piano or violin recording - they will either marvel at how realistic it is or ask how loud and how much bass the system has and you'll know whether to dump them immediately or spend more time on them. I had one guy swearing that his speakers were the cat's ass and their only limitation was bottom end. Had him bring them over and play them on my system and compare with my speakers - too about 2 minutes to convince him that bass wasn't the only thing lacking in his speakers. |
I'm of two minds about this. Our "lifestyle" ? We aren't swingers and we should not be embarrassed about our hobby or associated toys. I live in an area where people have toys, indulgences etc. While some have raised eyebrows (mostly wives) about my hobby, most understand my interest, just as I understand their interest in cars that can't be driven properly on normal roads, or wearing a watch that costs as much as a 1 month vacation in a Tuscan Villa. I am also a vinyl first audiophile and up until about 5yrs ago I was treated like a Luddite because of my preference for vinyl. Now I am the life of the party, and center of conversation when people find out. And then I give them a tour of my room.... I have a dedicated listening room/office, containing a lot of equipment, and about 2k records.... Most are impressed, and some are surprised. But all understand my passion. We do not or should not have to apologize for our interest in high end audio. |
Thanks for your appreciation of my humor.I am leaving Audiogon as I have no more respect for it, as they just deleted a new Discussion Post I put on where I just accurately described some harassment I was going through on here by some really suspicious people.I guess they are on the side of the wicked.You might have a case of the fox guarding the hen house on here.I will not post again or buy.Watch what you do on here; their seems to be no backup and something like this in modern society is sort of rare thankfully.Usually at the higher levels of institutions there is some decency and sanity, but I guess you cannot always count on that.Watch out on here.A lot of people should be made aware of something this bizarre. |
