I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.
I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep.
i remember replying to a similar thread a while back asking this question... my answer was 3 fold 1. some folks do not trust their ears to tell them which is 'better' 2. some folks with scientific training believe (mistakenly in my view) that measurements tell all that one needs to know 3. some combo of 1 and 2 |
We also used to think the sun was the center of the universe. Why is it so hard to accept people like different things and even what they like changes? If you have become accustomed to a certain sound, that is what you may prefer even if it does not measure well. Someone else may have become accustomed to and like a different sound that measures well.
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Why would he bother with listening to this amplifier?
Not particularly, this amp was given a not recommended not so much because it could be differentiated from other amps if kept within it's limitations but because it wasn't considered a good buy and the engineering of the thing is a bit weird.
Yes, I do. They can tell me enough to know what I want to consider. I've yet to listen to a component that measured well and sounded bad, but I only consider this with speakers as amps, Dacs, etc.. are commodities I can look at the numbers and know if I want it and they don't have to be that great since the speaker and room will swamp the electronics in terms of audible distortion.
I don't understand the gripe with ASR, if you don't like their approach then don't pay attention to it. From my reading on their site they pretty much ignore this place try to do the same. |
@russ69 I didn't say the measurements have to be great, they can just be good. Good is more than acceptable. |
The problem was not Amir himself but few of his zealots disciples... Because the notion of a measured distortion in engineering design is not the same than in acoustic... Why ? Because acoustician test a subjective response from a musician for example in a timbre experiment perception test...harmonics here means something very different than " harmonics" in engineering standard measures... And the engineer read a dial and his "distortion" THD is a way more simplistic concept of what a distortion do to the subjective impressions and why....It is an engineering % about a relation between input and ouput...Not the way sound affect humans ears... Electronic Engineering is SUBORDINATED to psycho-acoustic research or a tool for it not the reverse ... Save when the psycho-acoustic research is done and applied.... Timbre perception is not reducible to a simplistic concept of the spectrum for example....but the engineer most of the times work with this simplistic concept which is well enough for his design trade-off practice anway ... There is exception but they are exceptional designer not a crowd of them ...All audio products are not ultra high end... 😁😊
Exactly....Some designer like atmasphere know....
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