2. amps-preamps
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I need help, please? Listening to my system through music!

Hey all,

Please indulge me as I'm having an audio/identity crisis of sorts here. Maybe you can empathize, maybe it's just first world problems.

So, for several years up until earlier this summer, I was more or less happy and content with my audio set up:
  • Acoustic Zen Adagios
  • LSA Statement integrated (I tube rolled it)
  • Jolida JD9 Mk2 phono
  • Oppo 105 BDP
  • VPI HW19 Mk4 with Benz Ace cartridge
  • AZ and Decware cabling

It was my steady system for about 3 years after going through different many speaker/amp/tt/ combinations.

And then, based on several conversations with AZ founder Robert Lee and several Audiogon members, I became convinced that I needed to go the SET route for my Adagios. I auditioned Steve Deckerts' Decware amps and liked what I heard, but Mr. Lee recommended Triode Corp. amps, so when one popped up on Audiogon I grabbed it and sold my LSA Statement.

Now, the LSA is an understated star in the integrated world; it's a hybrid, dual-mono platform, perfected by Larry Staples and John Tucker of Exemplar Audio and delivers 150w of transparent power. The Triode Corp is a pure tube, 35w SET design with good reviews and Mr. Lee's endorsement. I tube rolled the input tubes in the Triode and then let it burn in for a while, even though I bought it used from a reputable Audiogon dealer.

Result? The bass the LSA delivered is missing. There's also clipping/distortion on the higher end. I took it to the local audio shop who biased everything and checked connections, etc. and gave it the thumbs up. But same result. It's a different sound than the LSA. It's not bad, per se; it's just not a full or comprehensive or satisfying. had I not had the LSA, I would have been pretty happy with the Triode.

You don't know what you got 'til it's gone.

MAYBE as a result, I really don't listen to music as much as I used to, if at all. I can't remember the last time I went on Discogs or to the local music store or even ordered any music on Amazon. I can't remember the last time I went down to my listening room and just enjoyed a recording. So, my questions are:

  1. Am I just over-reacting? And should I just sell the Triode and go for another amp and get over it? I'd rather not get the LSA again; I hate gong back to something I once had.
  2. Is hi-end audio, a hobby for the last 20 years, receding like many things do in our lives and now is no longer as paramount as it used to be?
  3. Is this a classic case of someone using music to listen to their system?
  4. Anyone else have these audiophile mid-life crisis issues?

Thanks for your patience and insight.

Warm regards,

Simao




128x128simao
glennewdick's avatar
glennewdick
1,676 posts
 

I'm wondering what Triode Corp amp you got that is 35wch SET, I don't see any thing close to that power in a SET on the site. Some nice looking PP amps at that Watt range.

Also your speakers are only rated at 89db, the speakers web site says 6ohms nominal impedance,  but for SET that's really not efficient enough you need upwards of 94-95db to really make it work even then closer to 100db is better.


I think you have classic under powered situation. like others have said you need 50-100wch. I would not give up on tubes though done well they can truly sound great.  look to AR, Cary, CJ, etc for more tube power. Class A solid state I bet would sound great too. Luxman, Acuphase, PassLabs, etc. in that 30-50wch Class A ss would work well.  

simao's avatar
simao OP
1,820 posts
 
Thank you all, for the sage advice and questions. The Triode in question is a Triode Corp TRV-88SE. It’s a push-pull design, not an SET and, based on all the advice and evidence, it looks as if it just may not be powerful enough for the Adagios. Mr. Lee said anything 35wpc or over would suffice, but it’s still a huge decrease from 150wpc, especially if that 45wpc of the TRV-88SE is PP and not SET.

Idk; I’m probably talking out of my a-- here. I do know, though, that the sound is def. not as easy or full as before. I wonder if it’s also a poor match for the Jolida phono? I’ve tried all the different loadings the Jolida offers, though the Benz is rated at 47K ohms.

Ironically enough, my very same LSA Statement is now for sale here on Audiogon from the buyer I sold it to, though I’m not in a financial position to buy it this month.
mdeblanc's avatar
mdeblanc
62 posts
 
I have similar regrets. I had a pair of Thiel CS 2 2s and traded them off because I wanted to go with tubes. I should have kept the speakers and put more money into a better amp.

Speaking of amps, how new is this amp you bought? If it’s relatively new, you might wait until you’ve put about 50hrs worth of listening thru it. Can you leave the amp on, in Standby, for a long period of time while you’re home? That will go a long ways towards getting the amp, broken-in. Every yr, I shutdown my system for Lent and I don’t listen again until Easter morning. Every Easter morning, I think ’what a colossal waste of money.' But after about 10hrs, the magic is back. It’s amazing how these systems are like a muscle. If they don’t get used, especially speakers, they get tight and need to relax again before sounding good. Anyway, give that amp some time and see if the joy returns.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
One comment regarding the Triode Corp is that they offer different lines or tiers of price and quality. TRV and the upper scale TRX models. I’ve only heard the TRX versions and they are superb but admittedly considerably more expensive. The TRX have much larger and better power supplies and transformers. The TRV are nice but definitely more value oriented. TRX is the more ambitious line.
Charles
elevick
2,636 posts
 
http://www.acousticzen.com/products/loudspeakers/floorstanding

The manufacturer rates the Zens at 89 db, 6ohms and minimum amp rating of 50 watts.
What inspired you to go so far off base with that amp?  I don't think even 60 watts would do it for you.  Doubling the wattage will only get you another 3db.  Are you using 4 ohm taps or 8?  Play around, it might help.
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