insurance and shipping with UPS

This is my favorite unhappy subject.  During the last 6 months I purchased 8 power vintage amplifiers on e-bay ranging from 30 to 77 lbs.  Of those 8, 3 were severely damaged during shipment.  When I purchase a power amp I make sure to message the seller that I’ve had issues with large heavy amps not being packaged properly.  I do this before I bid and give em a little time to react.   I’m kind in my message but I am on a mission to protect that amp and educate the seller regarding proven shipping methods.  At least half of the sellers swore they do a super packaging job.  Be it UPS or USPS or Fed Ex, its the luck of the draw who handles it at any particular transition point.  From Norwegian hammer throws to setting down a newborn baby, its going to get the full treatment.  I respectfully ask the seller to double box it, including doubling the corner walls with extra corrugated, and wrapping the unit itself in bubble wrap and then tightly taping it 100%.  I also ask them to put braces between the knobs (such as styrofoam, not bubble wrap for the braces between) that will absorb the internal forces against the faceplate vs. the knobs bearing the thrust of shocks.  I had one arrive where it was double boxed but the seller did such a lousy job of securing it inside the first box that it rambled around like a bowling ball and destroyed half the knobs, they were bent into their pockets.  The outside of the box had no holes or dents.  I carefully also take pictures of the box when it arrives and as I’m unpacking it to show the seller, and more often and more important, e-bay, so I can document the damage and compare it to the listing pictures for a refund if the seller gets crabby about refunding.  E-bay has been very good when providing detailed photographic evidence.  Its just such a shame, waiting for that prize to arrive and its been molested due to bad packaging.  And it takes time.  What I do now is I offer to pay extra packaging fees (usually offer $25) if they do exactly what I ask them to do, and I make sure to say it in a way as to not offend.  Double box is simply to give it a puncture zone so it does not penetrate the inside box.  It must have extra corrugated slid between the boxes as well.   A 77 lb amp with sharp corners is not going to survive even double packaging unless it is absolutely snug inside the first box and that box is snug inside the 2’nd box, and its been made nearly bulletproof.  I’ve driven 250 miles to pick up big amps.  Its worth it when the amp is exactly what I’m looking for and appears pristine.  I must also add that some of the sellers have been more than happy to go nuts on fulfilling my request, especially if I offer to pay for the extra packaging.   These have all arrived safety, some were beat up outside, but not inside.   That brings a smile to my face.  Tape, tape tape.  Ebay should make a video on how to package such heavy sharp animals.

The other point I missed is the huge misunderstanding e-bay sellers have with e-bay’s policy of “no-returns”.  That means exactly what is says, returns, not refund.  When a seller selects no returns on their profile it means they really don’t want the item sent back to them.  It does not mean they are exonerated from owning the quality of packaging towards insuring the package arrives safely or accurate listings.  Most sellers don’t understand this, and some try to stand behind “no returns” as meaning no refunds regardless of the reasons or events.  In the end, e-bay will stand behind 99% of buyers if the buyer provides proof of damage or proof the item was not as described.  The sellers can say in the listing they will not pay for shipping return costs.  If they do, the buyer must pay the return shipping.  E-bay will work hard to make the buyer return the item to the seller before they will back you with their refund guarantee.  In most cases the seller cooperates and pays for the return, but if they don’t and the buyer has to pay the return, e-bay will still reimburse you the shipping cost back with their guarantee IF you have proof of damage or proof of misrepresentation of the item listing.  I find most sellers feel terrible if the package is damaged, but not all and I’ve had to ask for e-bays’ help on some of these when the seller got angry or would not respond.   Its pretty easy to tell if a package was properly packaged once you open it up and see the care or carelessness of the inside materials and how secure it was made.  Its impossible to predict how badly it will be handled, so all precautions must be taken to package it to literally be dropped 6 ft.  For the record, when I go the other way I literally build a clam shell for the amp out of a dissected styrofoam cooler, much like the factory OEM clamshells that electronics are shipped in from the factories, and double box, add corrugated, bridge the knobs, tape 100% of the bubble wrap, and tape 100% of the inside and outside box.   I’ve never had an amp damaged going the other way doing these things.  Never say never, but so far so good.    

Hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire here, but I do see (in a way) @spin4cards reasoning. and I'll explain why. There seems to be an environment of un-accountability in today's society of commerce. We can pay for a service up front, but after cash is in hand, and if things go south, well, now it's our problem, not theirs. I understand that sometimes things do go wrong, and a premium for insurance is an obvious given. That being said though, even after all due diligence and insurance premiums have been accounted for, my experience is that they still try to weasel out of their responsibility. If I ran my business in such a fashion, well, I would be out of business.  Not trying to "kick the beehive" here, but I think I know what he's getting at.

I have to admit to thinking along the same lines.
When you ship ANY item with ANY carrier you are entering into a 2 way contract.
You pay them for a service, which is to deliver your goods in a timely manner and undamaged.
The idea that you should have to pay extra ( over what they just quoted you for said service) to insure this happens is nonsense in reality.
You have agreed a service between two parties, your end is packing it really well yourself and paying the carrier, their end is delivering it to the correct address undamaged. Really boils down to that.
Now if you knowingly make a crabby job of packing well you know who to blame, look in the mirror.
If you made a great job and all sellers with any integrity really should and it gets there damaged then that’s on the carrier.
Yes there should be an agreed value for liability and yes this may make your shipping cost more but to call it insurance is incorrect.
And once you have agreed that value and paid extra that should be it. Not " we will give you 75% of value", that is absurd!

And yes I realise this may incense some here and ruffle some feathers...oh well.

For the last 20 years of shipping delicate heavy items (furniture and audio equipment), I rely on FedEx and never use UPS in California (from or to).  UPS has a bad reputation in this state while FedEx hasn't caused problems for me (yet?).   UPS does deliver quickly within the state for items that are not heavy or not fragile (such as cases of grade juice in small cans, tightly wrapped and double boxed).  I've sent a McIntosh MX110 to Israel 20 years ago without damage and it was only double boxed with lots of bubble wrap around the preamp.  I would have used stiff styrofoam instead today.