Integrated vs. Separates on a Budget


$3000 is my max.

TIA

klimt

It's an accurate quote, cut and paste. But whatever. Either way, you just made my case- comparing 3k worth of amp and preamp to 3k worth of integrated, forgetting the money needed for the interconnect required to use them.

And yes, a $3k Raven Nighthawk will walk all over that, no matter what interconnect you magically get for free and forget to mention. 

 

That’s certainly a comparison that I would like to hear.  Anyway, that is why I asked the question.  It was not an assertion of any kind since as I said before, I have not kept up with the integrated market.  Nor do I feel the need to as I’m perfectly happy with my separates.  Instead of answering an “honest question”, you lecture.  You certainly have a way about you, Miller.  

Klimt  The Bluesound Node has an acceptable DAC built in so it has both digital and analog outputs.

The analog outputs would work with your Denon.

When/if you get a new integrated that has a DAC in it, you can use the digital outputs on the Node to utilize a better DAC.

BTW, I replaced Emotiva separates with a Parasound New Classic 200 Integrated amp and haven't looked back. I'm enjoying it's many features and excellent sound quality. It has a better DAC than my Node  so I use the digital outputs and it has a phono stage that supports mm and MC cartridges. At $1300 it doesn't quite compare with the $3000 integrated, but it leaves you some cash for a turntable, cartridge and some better cables.

I was staying away from the separates/integrateds debate, but since the thread has gone there:

Years ago, I moved from separates to integrateds.  One of my audiophile mentors suggested I go integrated, and I was a bit miffed, wondering if he was suggesting I was not a "real audiophile." 

But  he was right -- for me.  I agree with many of the points millercarbon makes -- if not his abiding disdain for civility ;) -- regards things  like cabling and rack space. 

I'd add that for me non-sonic considerations favor integrateds: a cleaner, less complex visual on the rack, and less troubleshooting and less to go wrong.  I don't seriously fool with my system much (except for dealing with the ever-fickle Roon!).

Of course, I understand the opposite perspective, favoring a visually imposing rack, with lots to tinker with.

I'm definitely curious to hear the case for separates over integrateds, at the same price point.  I've heard the arguments about less channel cross-talk for monoblocks, but them seems less relevant for separates with 1 box for power, as I assume are discussing here.

Thoughts from frogman or anyone?

 

Thank you for your reasoned and civil comment and question, jdoris. As is often the case here a simple and honest question from someone with a little experience in the hobby and a modicum of intelligence illicits a response that takes matters down a negative and heavy handed path. Especially since the thrust of my original comment should have been very clear to anyone not predisposed to heavy handedness and excessive ego. Let me try again:

First, I am not an equipment churner. I could offer more details about my approach to the hobby, but for purposes of this thread I will keep it to the matter at hand. I have owned and used a pair of Manley Reference 200/100 mono blocs for many years. Fantastic tube amps switchable between 200W tetrode and 100W triode. I’ve had the opportunity to compare mine to comparable current production Manley monos and others in the $10,000 range. Are the new Manley’s better than mine. Yeah, sure, a little…..maybe, depending on one’s tastes. If I were to sell my amps, I think that given their age, I would be lucky to get around $2000 for them. Same idea of diminished value for my tube preamps.

I have no doubt that there are some fine sounding integrateds made currently. I’ve heard systems built around integrateds and I would never dispute that there are NEW $3K integrateds that sound much better than, perhaps all NEW, $3K pre/amp combos. The convenience of integrateds is obvious and I’ve actually been very intrigued by the Jadis integrateds, having had experience with their amplifiers. However, a current $3K integrated better than my Manley’s and EAR preamp; or, other comparable high quality separates? Sonically and power wise? Both which can probably be had used for about the same price as a NEW $3K integrated. (I think it’s silly to get into the typical audio-jock disputes about whether something costs or is worth a couple of hundred $ more or less than something else and in which one’s opinion has to “walk all over” someone else’s).

Can the $3K integrated drive my Stax F-81 electrostatics (very inefficient) to give me the best, most natural sounding midrange that I have heard? Based on my sensibilities, of course. Or, my Maggies, to create the unbelievable soundstage that I hear? As just a couple of examples of what they can do. I suppose it’s possible, especially considering other aspects of the system and I’m open to the possibility. Actually, I hope that I’m wrong, but I kinda doubt it. That was my point and why I was surprised that the option of exceptional USED older separates had not been mentioned.

Thanks again.