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iTunes Windows/Mac interoperability issue

Howdy from Fort Worth TX,

I have an iTunes interoperability issue that I’ll outline as follows:

For awhile I’ve been trying to implement a basic music server system. I have a Dell Inspiron (Windows Vista SP1), to which I’ve added an extra internal HDD (NTFS, 320GB, which I call G:), where my audio is stored, mostly in Apple Lossless (ALAC). I also have a iBook G4 which runs 10.4.11, which AFAIK is the latest pre-Intel and pre-Leopards Tiger OS.

I’m using iTunes client software mainly because of its ubiquity; I haven’t as of yet played with any hi-res files, which would require other software clients anyway. My goal in all this is to eliminate the CD player from my stereos, building them around the music server and an Internet connection, and having LP playback in the main system. At that point, I would only use the silver disc for archiving.

The SMB client in the iBook’s MacOS works like a charm. From the iBook, I can login to G: either from Finder or from within iTunes itself. I can also rip from or burn to either of my computers’ optical drives, and get a respectable ~10-20x speed across the network on my iBook. I’ve even done simultaneous rips, simultaneous burns, and burned on one and ripped from the other. So my network works.

Now for the problem. From either system, sometimes I can’t find some of the files. Sometimes it’s entire albums; sometimes it’s certain songs within an album. This is denoted using an exclamation point icon next to the index number of the file on the iTunes desktop. If I click on the file, it gives me a dialog box to locate it. Then I have to drill down to find the files. I have to do this for each file, one at a time. Alternately, I can drill down G: (from WinEx or Finder) and do a drag-and-drop of the offending file or folder to the iTunes desktop. This creates duplicate aliases, which I must then remove manually.

When I’m on the Dell and I try to sync the files with it, then my Mac can’t find them, and vice versa. But by analyzing the metadata (Artist, Album, Name), I think I’ve isolated the bug to the Windows version of iTunes.

I don’t know much about iTunes, but apparently it consists of the GUI, a Library file which holds and organizes the metadata, an XML file which populates the GUI with the metadata, and, of course, a media player. As well, it includes an ebusiness client that’s the whole reason for its existence, but I won’t get into that.

Contemporary versions of Windows can accommodate foldernames and filenames of 256 bytes, certain characters excepted. But iTunes for Windows, for some reason, truncates these names to 40 bytes. This can be a real problem, especially in the classical repertoire, where wordy descriptions (say, artist credits or symphonic movements) are often the norm. Also, the Gracenote CDDB used by iTunes may have names with characters that the Windows version doesn’t allow in its syntax. The MacOS with its UNIX-derived kernel is more permissive.

Whether one uses Windows or a Mac, the metadata is parsed, string-literally, into the iTunes library. Either version creates an alias on the desktop, which allows it to find and process the file. On a Mac, the alias and the target names match; on Windows, due to the field size limitations and input masking, they don’t. That seems to be the reason I have to resync back and forth. One would probably never have this issue with just Windows boxes or just Macs.

So, if I haven’t bored y’all with the above, what I’m looking for is a workaround that would allow more interoperability. Winamp may be an option for the Dell, as AFAIK it now supports Apple Lossless. Also I understand that the payware version can support hi-res (>44.1/16) files. RealPlayer can be run across both platforms, but I don’t know if it supports ALAC. But I’d rather stay with iTunes on both machines at least for now, and I don’t know whether or not implementing either non-iTunes client on the Windows machine would solve the naming or location issues.

Also, looking for a workaround to the much-maligned CDDB issue parsing classical metadata, but I’ll save that for another post.

Thanks, John
128x128distant_replay
distant_replay's avatar
distant_replay OP
10 posts
 
Howdy again; thanks for all the responses.

Per Shadorne's post, I've been using the Mac as reference for some time now. I've figured that was the best way to go, since I can move the iBook from one stereo to the other. The Dell is in my home office, and only drives powered speakers, so no big deal if I can't access my whole library from there.

Before I added a second HDD to the Dell, I had a LaCie 250GB piggybacked onto the Dell using Firewire. The LaCie was formatted to FAT32. But it trashed after only 2 years of use, so I bought the other HDD and put it into the Dell. That HDD is a WD. And yes, I had to rerip my library; that was painful to say the least. At present I have only 100GB or so done. Anyway, I can only format the WD to NTFS (AFAIK you need an aftermarket plugin to get FAT32). In any event, I had the same compatibility issues with the LaCie, so it's not a FAT32 vs. NTFS issue.

Kirkus seems to suggest some plug-in which may rename files to some lowest-common-denominator syntax, but I don't know of any. Also, Herman suggested sharing the libraries. I tried enabling Home Sharing on one machine, then the other, then both, but in no case could I see the other library from either desktop. Apparently, Home Sharing uses some very basic protocol that may be something like Windows' NetBEUI, but can't communicate across platforms. So I turned Home Sharing off, then turned NetBEUI off on the Dell and AppleTalk off on the Mac, enabling only TCP/IP on either. Same problem.

Then, I turned off DHCP at the router and setup static IP's for the Dell and the Mac (192.168.x.x). Same problem. So I think I can conclude that it's not a networking issue.

Again, I think the bug is within the Windows version of iTunes, so even if I upgrade to a NAS, I don't think that'll fix it either, since the NAS will have to be either NTFS or FAT32, not Mac, and AFAIK it appears to be iTunes for Windows, not Windows itself, that seems to be doing this file renaming. I think I'll do NAS in the near future though, even though I'll need to get another router or switch (right now, I'm moving my iBook between two stereos and my kitchen and using using the Dell in my home office; that makes four points, which is the number of ports my router has). And, NAS will give me the advantages of RAID.

Over the next few days, I'll try to locate or rip a difficult file (like a classical movement with a long name and special characters) from the PC (to duplicate the issue) and post the file's FQPN and nomenclature (as seen from either platform) to the group so everyone can see the issue. In the meantime, thanks to all of you for your help and comments.

All the best, John

herman
2,244 posts
 
The LaCie was formatted to FAT32. But it trashed after only 2 years of use

Not really all that bad. The basic rule is you have multiple backups and expect any drive can fail at any time.

It can indeed share across platforms. I share your pain but it seems you have so many issues that your situation may be unique and so complicated to the point you may be on your own. When you post a 12 paragraph problem it would be amazing to get your issue resolved in one thread.

Good luck!

.
pkubica
134 posts
 
John... I'm using a Seagate Black Armor NAS drive for my music file storage (about 40,000 tracks). It works well on the wireless network and several PC's, I don't use MAC's but my iPhone will access it. However it should work with any computer. I believe the OS of the drive is UNIX, since they give you software to run on both PC's and MAC's so they see it on the network.
Paul
distant_replay's avatar
distant_replay OP
10 posts
 
Thanks for y'all's interest and patience with my windy problem description. Talked to my Apple tech re this; he concurs that the root cause lies within iTunes for Windows. Also talked to two Geniuses, one of whom had actually encountered a similar issue. Ditto.

Also, all three agreed that the Home Sharing within iTunes works best with WinXP or newer, and Intel Macs. My Mac is a G4.

All in all, though, this project has failed to banish the CD player from my stereo. CD's coax out is still better than computer's USB out through the same DAC. Right now, with USB audio in its infancy, I just can't see throwing big bucks at a USB DAC if IMHO it's probably going to be a paperweight two years from now.

In the meantime, I'll save my nickels and dimes for my last CD player. How many times have you heard that?

Thanks again and all the best, John
distant_replay's avatar
distant_replay OP
10 posts
 
Thanks again for all your posts. Just two more ?'s for the forum, one slightly off-topic.
First, in the "As We See It" article in August 2010 Stereophile, John Marks alludes to iTunes having 24/96 capability. I only see 24/48 (from Audio MIDI Setup) on my installation. Is this an aftermarket plugin, or perhaps only available on G5 (Intel) Macs? Or, perhaps 24/96 requires more RAM than the 1GB I have to handle the denser datastream. OS is 10.4.11; iTunes 9.2 (61).
Second, and slightly off-topic, any word of a dock for the iPad that has Ethernet connectivity? Since 802.11x sits on Ethernet--and is native to the iPod touch kernel, upon which the iPad is based--that should be a fairly easy thing to do. Such a dock should also have some way to get at the digital data to feed a DAC, such as a coax or USB-A out. Really, if I had a factory in China in my back pocket, this would be an easy build. A little weight on the bottom of the dock to balance the iPad, the requisite connectivity on the back of the dock, and voila--a poor man's Sooloos for the rest of us!!
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