JL Audio F113 or F112 For Dynaudio Confidence 5


I need a musical fast Sub mostly for music to go along with my Dynaudio Confidence 5. I was wondering if anyone had compared the f113 and the f112. I will not be buying stereo subs because I have neighbors and my room size is about 20x18
Can you hear a difference between these two subs when playing music? My priority is Music however I do listen to electronic music and they require deep bass. Thanks
128x128trance
Trance,

I spent about 18 months auditioning, researching and finally integrating subs into my 2 channel system. Here are some things that I learned along the way.

(Where judgements are involved, all are IMHO)

Even though one great sub may well have better deep bass output capabilities than two good subs, two good subwoofers will almost always outperform one great sub for music - simply because:

a) Placement flexibility of 2 subs allows you to site them where their room cancellations do not overlap. The result, if you take the time to do that right, is smoother bass response.

and

b) Most music will not really test a single good sub, let alone a great one. For most music, a sub that's designed for 30hz at your preferred SPLs in a space similar in size to your listening room is plenty good for music.

Usually, that means one good, solid subwoofer is sufficient to produce all the clean, deep bass you need for music, but 2 subs allow you to better deal with room induced frequency irregularities. In sum, smoothing the room trumps deep bass output capability for most music applications. Again, MHO.

Of course, your particular taste might be one of the few exceptions (also see pipe organ fans) to the "one sub is enough for clean, deep bass" rule, however, depending on your room size and preferred SPLs.

Note: The statement re: "clean output" assumes relative insensitivity to THD in the deep bass region. You don't want to see THD #s for most subs below about 30hz. At high SPLs they are almost uniformly horrible. The better models from JL, Genelec, and SVS are among the few that really handle that test. Most models from the other popular makes (REL, Velodyne, etc) produce poor test results for THD below 50hz, or so. Fortunately, as FR drops and distortion increases, I find myself less able to hear the problem. I once used two Velo 8" subs in my system. At or below 40 to 50hz at my usual SPLs, test results indicate that they were probably producing as much THD as signal, but it wasn't really distracting to me. Until I substituted superior subs into the system, anyway, then there was no going back. YMMV.

One other note, I also believe that JL makes a GREAT (not just good) subwoofer for music and that the 112 and 113 were hard to distinguish from each other in the medium large room in which I compared them.

So, IMHO...

1) go for 2 subs
2) Two 112s are almost certainly more than up to the task
and
3) When Aldavis says RELs measure notoriously poorly, he is being kind.

Some other things to chew on:

Test results are available for most models on line at HTshack.com Check them out - a little data never hurt anyone.

Given budget considerations, I chose a pair of Rythmik subs, which are great to a little below 35hz at very high SPL in a very large space. This is plenty for my taste in music. They can't match the JLs down in the low 20s (tho they will handily outperform most REL models in this frequency range), but are much less expensive than JLs. A pair of these is probably sufficient for your needs, too, but with the usual "trance music" caveat.

SVS makes a great product that is suitable for your application, more reasonably priced than JL and IMHO definitely worth checking out.

If you can hadle the cost of two 112s, go for it. If you're working to a budget, a pair of SVS (or - to a possibly lesser extent - Rythmiks) will probably outperform a single 113.

As to integrating Subwoofers effectively for music:

a) provided that the subwoofer is properly damped for use use with your main speakers (usually, tho not always, this means a sealed design)

and

b) assuming that you are crossing high enough to keepp the main soeakers in their "comfort zone"

seamless integration has less to do with the particular sub and more to do with placement, crossover characteristics, and phase matching. For this purpose a sub controller is tremendously helpful. I use a Velodyne SMS-1 (and a NHT X-2 to low cut my main speakers and keep the SMS out of the main signal path). Unless you end up with truly mediocre (or worse) subwoofers, the SMS-1 or similar device (Audyssey and SVS/Audyssey market competing models) will allow you to acheive great integration.

Good Luck,

Marty
My room size is 20x15 and I've owned 2 REL subs, the Storm II and then I switched to a REL Stentor III. I heard about JL audio from car stereo days and was curious.Long story short I sold the Stentor III and changed to dual JL F113's and have never looked back!Sad part about it was after arguing with Sumiko back and forth they finally replaced the internal amp on the Stentor which is a known problem.They tried to tell me it was my Levinson amp causing the problem although it had functioned without a hiccup for 3 years prior to that. REL's are musical but lack the output to really bring the feeling home especially with HT. The REL amps were never designed for high output HT or music.Two REL's would be great but outrageously expensive.My Fathoms are the most dynamic and musical sub I've had in my system and I've gone through a few to get where I'm at presently.If I could compare the two in closing it would be the REL will reinforce that last octave of bass missing with most speakers. The JL will also do that but add a tad bit more realisim due to it having the ARC function that helps smooth the bass out in the listening position.
JL subs have a wonderful on board room correction system that helps you dial the sub in for seamless perfect sound. Also you can run the output of a JL112 to another JL112 and let the same set up program dial in both woofers.

I own the 112. I have one in my theater and one in my music system. Both are excellent for music. One night I moved the 112 (UUgh heavy) into the music room and dialed both in and tried two subs. Two were definitely better than one.

For years I was an anti-sub guy. Now I won't have a system without one. I hope this helps.
Wow, thanks for the education, this message board has helped me understand many things I didn't know. I notice the Rel's sell instantly when they come up on audiogon, JL audio sell very well also, their seems to be more JL subs available on the used market this makes it easier to find a good deal. I am guessing more JL subs were sold in the market resulting in more sale availability on the used market. I will start with one sub and then move on to two. Thanks for all the help.