Just retired and want to get back to vinyl listening
steventoney, Again, good suggestions from members. Record Cleaning. U.S. is best. This site will keep you busy and your money well spent. whart and terry9 have gone the DIY route with U.S. cleaning ( A good way ) Your vinyl budget of 15 to 20k is good. Maybe a little "stretch" room if your like me and have to have it now. So...., My suggestions. Make your move , Pick out Your speakers. Use Your Ears and eyes. You will be the one living with them! TT = For my (3rd TT) ; I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a Technics SL1200 G. ( Not wait for the (10R ) Use tonearm that comes with the TT. Cartridge = So many choices and so many that I have Not heard. Pick something in 1-2k range. Tube Phonostage = ( I use a Manley Steelhead ) It is spendy even if you find on used market. Zero problems, responds to 'tube rolling', Dead Quiet ( counts a lot with me ) Look for a Manley Chinook on the used market. All the above applies. For "the stretch part" of your budget; Think Room treatments. Enjoy your vinyl journey. Best to you |
Well -- I got out and listened to some devore speakers today -- Gibbon X I liked the sound on a variety of material played through a clearaudio TT and some Auralic streamer and linear magentic integrated tube amp I still likely will stay on my Luxman 590 bent for now -- but what I heard was good -- I will go back in a few days as they will set up some devore 0/93 speaker to listen to as well -- they have no 0/96 in stock the Gibbon X are a contender, but many more listen to do... The ClearAudio Concept Wood with Satisfy Carbon Fiber tonearm and Clear Audio Maestro V2 MM cartridge was nice -- I may well start with this TT and set up... after looking at my friends VPI Scout setup -- starting with a good TT and can update if I wish later |
nothing was bad, but I spent 2 hours listening to various sources and different types of music on the Devore Gibbon X speakers -- as noted they sounded good -- They had devore 0/93s in the shop but not set up. I'll go back and listen to those within the week as they are hooking the up -- they had a lot dynaudio speaker and some others -- some way outside my price range -- I did not bother with -- I did not bother with smallest bookshelfs on stands -- which they had several of these set up for demo at lower price points that the devore speakers we talked a lot on speaker and equipment recommendations / advice I received -- I was there over 3 hours -- talk to the owner as he had sold Luxman until the distributor change and the main other person who spent the time with me... both by the discussion and what they related have been in the audio business 30-40+ years... both were positive on luxman 590 -- even though it is hard now find dealers with the distro change they sell VPI TT but did not have any setup and had several clear audio set ups at a variety of price points and some others that went way up into the 5 digits in cost and I just had a gapped mouth on a 5000-6000 dollar record cleaner from clearaudio -- I likely will not go there - lol we did talk only a tiny bit on DAC streamer/server as this was a source for some of the demo'ed material and discussed my SONOS set up as additional source to include using a DAC between the ZP80 and the luxman I did go to a local Magnolia store, but it had nothing of interest and no one with any knowledge to talk with -- so was a waste of time I have one other high end place to visit prior to my actual drive away to spokane after the 10th of October that has harbeth - audio note - quad speakers These guys where nice and helpful and I may well buy my starter TT from them as they will spend time - walking me through setup and play the the TT setup with various speakers ( I can then carry to TT with me in my yukon as slowly work through other choices) and if I decide to give the devore speakers a go after listening to other things -- I may buy them from this shop in falls church as there are few devore dealers -- from where I will be living the closest is 8-10+ hours away in Victoria BC or further way down into CA.. I would need to have the shipped - drop shipped etc.. |
I look forward to your impressions of the DeVore O/93's. I just bought a pair a few weeks ago and though not yet fully broken in, I love them. Things may change, but the plusses are very tuneful bass, good (downright startling at times) dynamics, and gorgeous "tonality". Minuses-well minus in the singular-is a wee bit of deficiency in the midrange purity. |
I'll report on the 0/93s.. fson... did you listen to other models before you bought your 0/93s -- 0/96 or Gibbon X.. I still have several other speakers to listen too before my purchase.... The Gibbon Xs seemed to do well through lows - mids - highs --- seem ed to really well in mids.. highs were good and bass was decent -- but I'm did not really listen to things that were a real "low" bass test -- like some organ music -- but overall the gibbon X did well at moderate to low listening volume -- I 'm not a really loud music listening person -- definitely very little to none of the real pounding rock - heavy metal sound |
I only auditioned the O/93’s. I drove to Cleveland from Columbus and visited Don Better. He knew I was coming to audition the O/93’s and had them set up with gear similar to my own after we exchanged some email and he knew that I had a smallish room and knew my ancillary gear. He had set the O/93’s up with similar gear, more or less. I had spent 4-5 years with speakers that had overpowered my room and did not want a repeat. Don assured me the O/96’s would render too much bass for my room. Don is the definition of "a cool jazz cat", being a pro jazz guitarist IIRC who was from Cleveland but spent much of his career in LA. I don’t want to get Don in trouble with John DeVore, but Don told me that although he sells 10 pair of O/96’s for every pair of O/93, he prefers the O/93. This could be for any number of reasons but my guess is that the narrow depth of the O/93's turns people off. You can easily rock the speakers back and forth with one pinky finger which is antithetical to many who think loudspeakers need to be solidly anchored to the floor. I happen to think the overall design of the O/93's bucks many design parameters that are assumed to be valid by the likes of JA when he measures speakers. When Don said he preferred the O/93's, I don’t think this was sales-talk as Don seems to have far better-heeled customers than myself and he seemed to be totally neutral as to whether I would buy or not. In fact, I think he was a bit surprised when I pulled out my credit card. Btw, Don has one of the most amazing arrays of iconic turntables I have ever seen in one place and the DeVores seem to scream for vinyl rather than digital. I have yet to use my Aurender N100H/AMR DP777 with my new O/93’s-I go right to my collection of vinyl. |
thanks fson -- I will give the 0/93s a good listen before I move -- If I decide on Devore I may need to have the dealer I’m getting my local in house audtions and reeducation from a nod to selling me the speakers as there will be no dealer anywhere close to me in Spokane.. btw how picky on placement do you find the 0/93s -- how far out from the wall -- how far apart - anything between I have decided to buy the TT from them as a starter and then can work with them if still needed after the move on speakers.. They are going to take me through setting up the TT and adjusting - measuring things on the concept TT and will use it for more next demo’s in their shop of the devore speakers -- I not that interest in the other speakers they have in house... I’ll basically rebox the TT in the shop with them and haul it with me in my yukon versus having with the stuff handled by the moving company. I also will be visiting one other dealer here in VA - further away to listen to harbeth and audio note speakers -- I do wish to hear for my legacy memory a set of Klipsch Hersey-Cornwalls just to hear them and have a old memory comparative -- I plan to try to list to a KEF Ref5 and Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs if possible -- maybe legacy audio focus SE -- on a trip to the western WA area shops after I move and settle in spokane - it would roughly be a 3-4 days round trip to get out there and hit some shops in a 2-3 day time frame with the rest being travel time pretty much decided on the luxman integrated and will buy they after move and paying for the move and getting new bed, etc in new place in spokane - probably a early christmas present for myself -- |
btw how picky on placement do you find the 0/93s -- how far out from the wall -- how far apart - anything betweenI had an educated guess where they needed to be and think I am very close with no fine adjustment yet. I read John's "Care and Feeding" instructions and he ascribes to the rough equilateral triangle configuration with two options depending upon whether you set them along the long wall or short wall. Mine are five feet from the front wall, three from the sidewall, seven feet woofer to woofer centers, seven feet from my head in my listening chair, and toed in so that I barely see the sides of the enclosures. So my short answer is "not picky at all". On the TT, my advice is to have the dealer set it up, buy a good digital tracking force gauge and level, and be sure to check VTF and for levelness when you arrive home. VTF is likely to change during transport. When I got back into vinyl about a dozen years ago, I felt compelled to tinker with alignment and VTA and azimuth rather than sitting back and relaxing and trusting that my dealer had aligned the cartridge and set up the table properly. That was a mistake. The problem with most TT's is that the basics of TT set-up are fairly easy but the the TT manufacturers don't make it very easy to actually perform the adjustments. I have owned two VPI tables and five different VPI armwands and though I love VPI, I don't like the tiny allen key screws that are prone to stripping with the least bit of over-tightening and the awkward location of those set screws. At 58, the most annoying thing is not being able to see what's going on without a pair of readers on and a flashlight in one hand with an allen key in the other while craning to see what's going on towards the back of the table against the wall. I tend to disassemble platter from table and tonearm from pivot point and transfer the whole mess to my kitchen table under bright lights :-) Don't let a bit of this cause you pause-the pain is worth it. |
@steventoney So you are in WA.? You may wan to look up Chapman Audio. Stuart Chapman Jones and family are on Vashon Island, in the sound, and have been making top notch speakers for decades. He is very friendly and will have you for a visit in the listening facility.. Also, a trip to Ferndale, to visit Lou with Daedalus Audio would be top on my list, as well, for speakers in your area. Lou is one of the friendliest in the business. Both are very very good and you get more performance than you pay for going direct with these two. But I do also love Devore and am personally looking forward to hearing the Gibbon X again... |
will be in WA -- Spokane.. moving van comes 2 weeks from day -- I drive away a day or two later after check out of the apartment -- 2500 miles to Spokane -- probably more with side trips along the way.. thanks for the input --- the Daedalus speakers are pretty things -- what is their sound compared to the Devore Gibbon X?? |
Hi Steve, I've got to add my $2. Congrats on making it through your illustrious career. I retired several years ago to pursue other opportunities. I got back into analogue audio about three years ago. I have spent more money than I care to count trying to satisfy my lust for good sound. I'm not going to tell you what brands to buy. I will just relate some of my experience. Peter Lederman told me the speakers and turntable/cartridge are the most important. In that order. You can match the electronics to those. I use a 35 yo Conrad-Johnson PV6 and an Acoustat TNT120 for the amplification. They sound as good as anything for my speakers, ATC SCM19s. You need to match features that you need with the performance necessary for the speakers. Your phono stage should match your cartridge, not the other way around. Pick speakers that will sound good in a variety of locations, so if you decide to move into a different room you don't have an acoustic nightmare, like I did. As you are aware, there are literally 100s of cartridges and everyone will tell you to buy what they have. A really good one is going to go for $1K - $10K. Just remember that in spite of advancing age and the subsequent hearing loss, the best possible sound will be enjoyable even if you need hearing aids to have a conversation or watch TV. You will put them aside to listen. The turntable needs to be able to track the better carts, specifically the cart you have chosen and most will do a fine job. I've heard VPI bandied about in this thread. If you don't mind tinkering and tweaking, the VPI is a very fine turntable. I have a Prime Signature. It sounds wonderful with my Sound-Smith Voice. I had no idea though, the amount of continuous tweaking that is needed. Everything is adjustable, which is good, but there is a compulsion to tweak it to squeeze more, better sound out of it. Or you'll notice a bit of sibilance and after spending hours if not days trying to find what has caused it you find a tweak will help. You can buy tools and what not to help in the tweaking, but you are still tweaking. You'll need a Fozgometer and test records. You can adjust the azimuth with that. A lot, they say, do it by ear. Great! I can tweak and listen, then tweak and listen some more, etc., etc. Oh, and anti-skate. That's a whole education in and of itself. So you've got to ask yourself, "do I want to just listen or do I want to spend my retirement tweaking?" I personally would prefer to set it and forget it so I can just listen. The VPI is hands on at all times. You've heard what everyone else has recommended, mostly hardware, but I thought a bit of my personal experience might help too. Once the equipment selection is done, you'll want to listen and enjoy. If you've done a good job selecting you'll have years of pleasure in your retirement. Best of luck on this new adventure, bring the Dramamine. And, happy listening! Peace out, Len |
inna -- thanks for that -- I think I’m after a Luxman 590 -- although that is a tempting offer..............trying to understand the difference between the AX and AX mkII Luxman integrateds -- These are difficult beast to go see in shops.. The place I auditioned the Devore speakers - the owner had sold them until the distributor change.. I’ll be getting the I-AMP and speakers after the move... len -- thanks.. I decided on a clearaudio concept wood with satisfy carbon fiver arm and the clearaudio maestro v2 MM cartridge to start -- I had read about and discussed the VPI tweaking with my friend who has a VPI Scout and with the shop I bought the TT from as they are also a VPI dealer -- they are going to take me through setup and care and feeding of the beast -- I do not think I will be an endless tweaker, but could upgrade change some things over time. in my first round of "stereo" decades ago -- over a 16 year period -- I had Genesis (I can not remember the model - but was a big bookshelf style like an old Advent), Heresy, DCM TF500 speakers (these were ok, but I was traveling and moving so much in my early Active Duty days in the mid 80’s this is wre I give up my TT and other "stereo" things for a number of years -- Yamaha and Denon Receivers, Technics TT -- etc all I would like to hear some of the ATM classic series speakers |
Did some more listening and learning today from the other hifi audio place close to me.. nice people as well this trip was to specifically listen to Harbeth and Audio Note Speakers.. some side listen to some shop made very large and very expensive setups, but back to things in my budget they did not have the Harbeth 40.2s in the place - but had 30.1s and they were very good with both digital and vinyl sources through Synthesis I-amps or some in house built amps Audio note speaker listen was an AN-E -- This was very very good and a smaller model AudioNote The AN-E seems much like a Devore 0/93 that I have not heard yet -- will this week or next These speakers all were very good with tube I-AMP - heard with Synthesis A100 and A40 I may give the node to the AN-E for just natural listening to music... thoughts on these speakers and Synthesis AMP -- I really was not going to tubes -- but may -- it is a time to listen more -- not sure I'll be able to listen to these various speakers with a Luxman I-AMP - but wish too another 2+ hours well spent in the education |
@inna :) my reputation all seems to come from the same place... I first heard the Audio Notes at a show, seems to me RMAF. If I recall correctly the speakers were in the Electra Fidelity room where there was also a set of M-60s. I thought the two sounded quite good together; is it a bad thing that I commented on something from direct experience? |
Ralph, don't take the bait. Industry insiders tend to shy away from enthusiast boards because of being abused. I have seen this happen again and again on a popular wine board-winemakers pitch in with their wealth of knowledge and get accused of shilling even when the comment was not intended to be such. If Inna were to be given the benefit of the doubt, it would be that he was remarking that "of course the AN-E's are tube-friendly-they are AN-E's!" and that your comment was kind of unnecessary or obvious. Perhaps that is what he meant, more-so than accusing you of shilling but only Inna knows for sure. I just bought the DeVore O/93's and before that, I had just purchased an ARC Ref 6 preamp and Ref 150se amp. While auditioning the DeVores, they were matched up with a VTL 100 watt amp. My dealer did this on purpose since he asked me beforehand what I would be using the DeVores with if I bought them. Nonetheless, I was a bit concerned that the ARC 150se would be too much power with the potential for too much 60hz hum and the like. No such problem. They team up very well. My point being that it is amazing that very efficient easy load speakers play well with tube amps of all types and power. |
I think, Ralph understood exactly what I meant, it doesn't matter what he said in response. Anyway, if someone considers Audio Note speakers the first logical move is to audition them with Audio Note amps and then maybe try other amps. Dealers often push particular brands and models for a few reasons one being profit margin. Some of them are also very good at brainwashing. |
back on track.... I will listen to some o/93 within the week.....before the move in 2 weeks..... I still have no options yet to hear Harbeth 40,2 and and o/96 -- I may well not have a big enough room for them -- we’ll see where I end up and measure room. The earlier pointer to Chapman and Daedalus speakers may well be part of western part of WA multi-day soiund trip to see and learn other things before I buy -- I’m taking it all in and will be listening - audition more..... I have the time.. also well I am listening to and learn on tube integrated and still have luxman integrated in sight -- what are anyone thoughts on Mcintosh integrated like the MA6700 -- just a little OP redirection for all ;-) BTW -- both dealers I have visited since my decision to invest in vinyl and some higher end stereo setup -- but suggest tube amps for the speaker types I have been most interested in -- I understand this advice -- I think both are straight shooters and willing to give time and discussion of various topics -- so the journey continues thanks all |
I think the Luxman you are considering is a "can't go wrong" move. It will provide a baseline for phono, line stage, and power amp that will each be difficult to beat, and it gets you going right out of the box without agonizing over which other components might or might not appeal to you and still work well together. Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers are no slouches - they sound a lot like Quads to me - I'd give them a listen too, if possible. The Concept/Maestro combo seems like a good way to start on a vinyl journey - it should sound great without spending $20K, until you are sure you want to go further in the vinyl pursuit. :) |
thanks sql... I think I’m good with starting with the clearaudio concept wood for my first foray back into vinyl after 35+ years... as noted earlier in the thread -- I listen to Harbeths -- specifically the M30.1 with a synthesis A100T tube integrated -- it was really good and in the same shop I listened to Audio Note AN-Es and AN-Js again with tube integrated -- IT was close but I thought the AN-E were a little better for my taste that the M30.1s the AN-E is very much like the Devore O/93 that I will audition this Wednesday -- I listened to the Gibbon X on a line magnetic tube integrated amp at the shop last time -- they also were very nice -- I’ll to some other speakers mentioned after I move next week -- but the Harbeth - Devore - Audio Notes are real contenders for the new setup The integrated amp part is still leaning to the Luxman, but I also like the looks of the Leben CS600 as a tube amp, but that puts me into having to get a phone preamp/stage - which I do not know if I quite there yet.. the whole tube versus a SS class amp like the Luxman is a hard choice.. would be nice if I could audition these as well -- but the amp and speakers will be on back burner until after I get moved to Spokane and find a new place to live.......... moving van comes next Monday I do have a question -- if folks would be so kind -- about pro/cons on using the rca line inputs - outputs versus the balanced I/O on some of these equipment pieces -- I have no experience at all on the balance I/O - thoughts? |
I do have a question -- if folks would be so kind -- about pro/cons on using the rca line inputs - outputs versus the balanced I/O on some of these equipment pieces -- I have no experience at all on the balance I/O - thoughts?The simple answer is to not worry about it. Both work well. The more complex answer is that a huge amount of gear that offer balanced outputs and inputs don't offer true balanced circuits all the way through so the balanced option is more of a convenience thing allowing someone with a bunch of XLR interconnects the option to use them. True balanced circuits offer significantly less susceptibility to hum caused by various factors including grounding (mostly) but also rejection of EMI/RFI. I recently switched over from single ended (RCA) to balanced (XLR) interconnects hoping to take advantage of true balanced hardware and I don't notice much difference. Most of the Stereophile reviewers have made comments from time to time about noticing very little difference between single ended and balanced such that they mostly use singled ended interconnects. From a purely practical standpoint though, XLR is so much easier to connect and disconnect than locking WBT-style RCA barrels-I am happy to be away from those. Also, I don't know why it is, but cable manufacturers dwell over their choice of RCA connectors and often have very pricey options offered as upgrades and yet with XLRs they usually just have one option and leave it at that. I have seen obvious XLR "jewelry" on very expensive IC's but even the manufacturers don't seem to dwell much on the cost/quality of XLR connectors as being crucial. |
I do have a question -- if folks would be so kind -- about pro/cons on using the rca line inputs - outputs versus the balanced I/O on some of these equipment pieces -- I have no experience at all on the balance I/O - thoughts?There are several things to understand about balanced. I'll try to not make it too confusing. There is this thing that is the balanced line standard. It is spelled out in the Audio Engineering Society (AES) file 48. If your equipment conforms to the standard, a fun thing happens- you can run longer interconnects and they don't have to be exotic (and exotically priced) to sound excellent. Unfortunately many high end audio companies that offer true balanced equipment don't actually support that standard. The reason is that its hard (see points 2 and 3 below) and some companies don't seem to be aware that it exits. As a result you'll see really variable comments ranging from mine- which usually read something like 'Once you've heard it set up right, there's simply no going back' to 'balanced is just a gimmick and offers no performance improvement at all'. The latter happens when the standards are ignored. So its important to check with the manufacturer to see if their equipment supports the standard. In a nutshell, here's the standard: 1) pinout: pin 1 of the XLR is ground, pin 2 noninverting (in the US), pin 3 is inverting (in the US) 2) the output occurs between pins 2 and 3; pin 1 (ground) is ignored and is only used for shielding 3) the system is low impedance; a preamp supporting the standard should be easily able to drive 1000 ohms without frequency response or distortion problems. FWIW, all cartridges made today are balanced sources. That is why turntables always have that funny 'ground wire' that no other 'single ended' sources seem to have. The ground wire is the shield. So if you have a turntable the signal can easily travel from the LP to the preamp input via a low impedance balanced line- and thus the signal will be more immune to the interconnect cable, making for greater transparency and lower noise to boot. Usually all that is required is to change out the interconnect cable. An obvious advantage of balanced operation is that you can run long cables. 50 feet is no worries between preamp and amp so its possible to run monoblock amplifiers placed by the speakers and run really short speaker cables- which will ultimately help you with impact and definition. Once you've heard that greater definition, its hard to go back. The most common myth about balanced line is that its more expensive and there are twice as many components. This is false. It does take more parts, but not twice as many- maybe about 50% more (unless the execution is poor). However your interconnect cables don't have to be as expensive. I think mine cost me about $150.00 for the pair and they are 30 feet long. In practice, the cheaper cables more than make up for the difference in price and quite often you can have greater performance to boot. |
... given the comment on cartridges -- curious as to why more TT/tonearms would not have balance outputs ...They do have balanced outputs - don't let the RCA connectors fool you. And you can feed those balanced outputs into a balanced phono preamplifier - some of which also use RCA connectors on the input. |
They do have balanced outputs - don't let the RCA connectors fool you. And you can feed those balanced outputs into a balanced phono preamplifier - some of which also use RCA connectors on the input.OK, you will have to explain this one to me. Many turntable manufacturers offer DIN outputs but you are obviously saying that those that only offer RCA outputs (like VPI's for example) are actually balanced. IMHO, you won't find too many phono stages that offer balanced operation. Case in point is my Manley Steelhead. Right from Manley; FAQ #1: The Steelhead is unbalanced. Why can't I have balanced outputs? |
fsonicsmith OK, you will have to explain this one to me. Many turntable manufacturers offer DIN outputs but you are obviously saying that those that only offer RCA outputs (like VPI's for example) are actually balanced. IMHO, you won't find too many phono stages that offer balanced operationMost phono cartridges are inherently balanced; they have separate left, right, grounds and shield. There are many fine, truly balanced phono stages, such as Audio Research, and a good argument can be made that the phono section is the most beneficial place in a system to use balanced operation. |
Most phono cartridges are inherently balanced; they have separate left, right, grounds and shield. There are many fine, truly balanced phono stages, such as Audio Research, and a good argument can be made that the phono section is the most beneficial place in a system to use balanced operation.Yes, I have read, heard, and known for some time that phono cartridges with their four pins are true balanced. That is not the issue I am asking you to address. I am instead asking you how RCA outputs from a typical modern table can be used in balanced form as you clearly stated. |
fsonicsmith Yes, I have read, heard, and known for some time that phono cartridges with their four pins are true balanced. That is not the issue I am asking you to address. I am instead asking you how RCA outputs from a typical modern table can be used in balanced form as you clearly stated.That depends on the balanced phono preamp’s inputs. If it uses RCA connectors - such as ARC - then all you need is a pair of RCA cables. (You may or may not choose to also use the separate shield.) If the inputs are on XLR connectors, then you’d obviously need to use XLR connectors on the phono preamp end and whatever else you need on the pickup arm arm end, be it DIN-to-XLR, or RCA-to-XLR. Or you can get a pickup arm breakout box that terminates in XLR connectors or whatever connector of your choosing. |
curious as to why more TT/tonearms would not have balance outputs and equipment inputs for these in various equipment be the xlr balanced inputsThe idea of the cartridge being a balanced source was introduced to home audio in 1989 by Atma-Sphere (the MP-1 was the first balanced line preamp for home use). Before that it just wasn't around. To this day, I still occasionally run into tone arm manufacturers that don't realize that the cartridge (and thus the tone arm) is a balanced source. If we're talking about inexpensive gear that uses OPamps, its almost the same cost to run balanced as it is single-ended. But the industry relies heavily on tradition- meaning that it will try to do the same thing the same way decades on after its been shown that there is a better way. In that regard audio is like a host of other industries- and maybe that's just a human nature thing. I am instead asking you how RCA outputs from a typical modern table can be used in balanced form as you clearly stated.This is sort of a cringe-worthy thing that you sometimes run across. The idea is that the RCA connection is not tied to ground- usually they 'float' and if tied to ground, are done so by a wire. But you could use the ground side as the minus output of the cartridge, and so- you could then have the input circuit be a differential amplifier and *if* the ground wire is tied to chassis it would work. Sort of- you do have this little problem that the '+' output of the cartridge is likely going to be shielded by the '-' output of the cartridge (by the single-ended tone arm cable), and this is where the cringe-worthy issue comes up- this leaves the system highly vulnerable to hum. Now if the cable was built balanced, and the shield was actually the ground wire, then the only area where the system is hum susceptible is the RCA connector itself. I think this idea got going so that the preamp would be instantly compatible with any turntable interconnect, but in reality it isn't. On top of that, as soon as the minus output is acting as a shield for the plus output, the construction of the cable is going to have an effect on the sound, so you just lost an important aspect of balanced operation, which is cable artifact immunity. IOW it really should be done with an XLR. |
Been pondering 12" Tri-planar terminated - cartridge to XLR straight through. Mounted on modified Technics 1200 G . Still pondering cartridge choices. Kuzma 4pt can be ordered same way. Might be others. Maybe someone else can with knowledge can add to this thread. Suggestions for cartridge choices are welcome. Considering ..... Koetsu Black Goldline Transfigureation Proteus Lyra Etna Van de Hul ? Suggestions ????????? Been Scantek guy since 88' Have my first Dynavector XX 2 mkII 60s, 70s, 80s R&R Jazz for about 7yrs now Select Classical for 3yrs Then the quirky stuff that that only I like. Then the 50s stuff that older brother and sister listened to. |
Suggestions for cartridge choices are welcome. Considering .....Cartridge manufacturers really don't want to admit this, but the ability of the tonearm to properly track the cartridge is far more important than what cartridge! The Triplanar is one of the most adjustable arms made (even can adjust effective mass a bit) so as a result it can track a pretty wide range of cartridges. IOW you will do well with all the choices you have listed. Your taste in music has nothing to do with it; no cartridge made cares what sort of music you play (this is true of electronics and speakers too), nor does a particular cartridge favor a certain type of music. So I look at it in terms of how well the cartridge holds up. I've had a Transfiguration Orpheus that has done quite well- its on its 6th year and is still relaxed and musical. I expect sooner or later the suspension will die and when that does it will have acquitted itself quite well. |
Modwright KWI-200 integrated amp. Can also get a phono section in the amp at extra cost. Modwright stuff sounds very good and the 200 watts per channel will drive most any speaker. You're out west so if you have no major reservations about buying used, your money can go MUCH farther. You can generally get equipment for 50% of the list cost, sometimes much better than that. Used, you can get this IA with phono for under $3500, maybe better. If you have any woodworking skills at all, buying a used Lenco 70, 75 or 78 TT and doing much of what the Home Depot thread on Audio Circle tells you to do, can yield an awesome sounding table. I have ZERO mechanical or electrical knowledge and I did it and the idler driven platter is dead accurate on all speeds and sounds frightened dynamic and real. I second the use of a Trans-Fi Terminator straight line tracking air bearing tonearm. I did the combo and after many parts upgrades it cost me about $2500 for the pair. A Shelter 501 Mk II or III MC will get much of the higher priced sound right. An Allnic H-1200 phono section is the most dynamic phono preamp at a still reasonable cost. If you were to get the last pair used, it would cost about $1300-1400 so for $3800 and some work by you, you'd have a very good analog section that could compete with $10,000 set-ups and not be embarrassed. Speakers are a matter of preference, however, the Tekton Double Impact speakers are all the rage on Audiogon Forums. Many have sold their very expensive speakers and bought the DI's and love them--very dynamic and live sounding. Base price is $3000 new, although Tekton does offer a couple upgraded parts DI's at $3600 and $6000. Cables can effect the sound in very positive or so-so ways. When I jumped to Darwin Silver ICs, it was a big jump up in performance over Morrow or many others in the good for the money group. Also, the Amadi Maddie Signature ICs are very good and the equal of the better Darwin cables. The AMS's are also silver wired. Neither Darwin or Amadi ICs are bright sounding but very detailed and transparent with excellent bass. I have several pairs of either available at used prices. It took ICs that were more expensive to make a big difference and it was super synergy in my system that cause me to go for that change after hearing them. There was nothing out there at the used price of the Darwins or Amadis that is their equal--$140-$250. Amadi also makes very good power cables along with Cerious Technologies. Speaker cables like Speltz Anticables are awesome at their price--under $85 for an 8 ft. pair new. Very clear and detailed again with no brightness. It took a pair of Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme cables to take them out of my system for good. The CTGE cables are $640 for 8 ft. pair. Amadi also makes an excellent speaker cable at about $600-700 an 8 ft. pair. |
Update!!! There has just been a pair of VMPS RM30 ribbon speakers put on VMPS website of Audio Circle for $1000 used and in good shape a few minutes ago. The guy's wife didn't like them so much as he did. This pair retailed for over $5000 new. You want clarity, beautiful voices, dynamic, great soundstage, tight bass--all with adjustability to rooms and systems, here it is. I've owned a pair and have the big brother VMPS RM40 BCSE edition. The RM30's will sound great in any room. At their new price they would be a bargain, at this price--unbelievable. Read the reviews online. Heck, if you didn't like them you could sell them at a profit out west. |
Well, my speakers are much better with smaller scale acoustic music, including vocal, than with anything else. Not bad for jazzrock, though, and electric guitar anywhere. Not good with large scale music. Does it mean that the speakers are bad ? It's a matter of perspective, I don't think so. I assume that only extremes, either junk or reference level, speakers perform more or less equaly with any kind of music. Think JM Labs Focal Grand Utopia, top of the line or close to it Kharma, Tidal, MBL etc. So, ideally yes, in reality no or not quite. Electronics is another thing, there should be no difference. And cartridges - I don't know, I didn't notice much difference when excluding the speakers and listening thru the headphones, still slightly better with acoustic music, but so are my headphones ! |
The Luxman looks nice. I have the (now discontinued) Luxman phono stage that I love. I don't know the pin designation on the Luxman balanced connections but they may be different than the US standard that atmasphere mentions above. If you are still thinking Klipsch, check out the new Forte III's but as others said the room is important, if the room is too "boomy" these may be a little much. For turntable the Amadeus is worth checking out-great sound on mine but not at all retro in appearance. |
Well, I happen to think this thread has an incredible amount of bad information. One poster says "Tekton DI's are all the rage these days and many people are selling their far more expensive speakers for them", and suggests they merit strong consideration. For F’s sake, whatever the hell you do, avoid the flavor of the month on forums like this one. There’s always an easy way and the right way. The right way here is to audition gear on your own after studying the various tried and true, ENDURING means of achieving good sound. There are only a set amount of tried and true paradigms; high power solid state with inefficient full range speakers, moderate British style solid state with stand mount monitors, SET and low power tube amps with horns or highly efficient easy to drive speakers, high power solid state with planars, etc. One poster just wrote; Electronics is another thing, there should be no difference.Nothing could be further from the truth. An indisputable truism; everything matters and electronics sound markedly different. Nothing will kill a system more effectively than mediocre electronics. You are better off with 10K worth of electronics and a $500 pair of well designed stand mounts than a pair of expensive speakers and cheap mediocre electronics. I feel like sysyphus rolling the rock uphill sometimes and surely sound like the parody of a prophet in Monty Python’s "Life of Brian". You are retired and you presumably worked hard to get to the place you are at. Time is important but shortcuts will kill all enthusiasm. Travel to three retailers with diverse lines and listen to what each have to say and play for you and formulate real-world opinions first hand. You came to the wrong place for good advice. Discount mine as well as need be. |
Thanks all for the discussion... I think I’m going down a reasonable path and balance for a restart in this hobby to enjoy some music.. I do not think I’ll get to the stage of say the "cartridge" discussion level of expertise details.. some of the discussions go further than my current needs, but are helpful in seeing what other say. I expect I will stay with an integrated amp for a long time - just not sure I will get to complete separates. I’ve gone to 2 places here in VA just prior to the move.. felt comfortable enough to buy the starting new TT - arm - cartridge clearaudio setup -- I plan to go to some other place in the Northwest after I get moved and settled as I work to may final choices on other parts of the setup.. the thread illustrates what I’ve auditioned. I pick up the TT setup today, but for some hours in the shop it will be setup for some extend listening with Devore speakers and a few different integrated amps in my last audition prior to hitting the road for spokane next week.. I have the time to do some more auditioning, but it will require many hours of travel from where I will be living Fson... in your paradigms - where are the Luxman - Accuphase SS class A types fit -- These are SS but do not seems all that "powerful" relative to most of the other SS offerings again thanks all for the info and advice |
Fson... in your paradigms - where are the Luxman - Accuphase SS class A types fit -- These are SS but do not seems all that "powerful" relative to most of the other SS offeringsThat's a great question. When I brought up the concept of "tried and true paradigms" I am aware that I am opening myself up to criticism for making broad brush generalizations bordering on stereotypes. That was not my intent. So as to Luxman and Accuphase, both are actually "high power" compared to many Japanese high end set-ups, which tend to be vinyl front ends, SET tubed (8 watts or so) gear and AN style corner loaded speakers.Corner loaded speakers maximize room space and assist with managing bass response in thin-walled construction homes. Obviously there is a dichotomy between something like Shindo with absolute simplicity of circuit design using selected NOS caps and resistors and something from Luxman or Accuphase which offer a ton of switches and selectors much like the receivers of the 70's. Luxman tubed gear is drool-worthy both from the standpoint of construction/tactile feel and sound. More affordable than Shindo and probably Luxman and just as lofty is Leben http://lebenhifi.com/aboutus.html. By and large, Japanese and British gear is designed with the typical small listening room in mind, but the paradigms are different with the Brits tending moderate power solid state integrateds (Sugden, Croft) and standmounts derived or evolved from the BBC LS3/5A. |
