Krell Master Reference Amplifier


Any opinions on these amps?

I am in search of the best solid state amp in the world -- is the Krell Master Reference Amp it? Or would it be overrated?

Advice would be greatly appreciated?
cchp
Thanks to Paul and everyone else for your helpful comments. I really appreciate it.

I currently have the Pipedreams so it is interesting that Paul mentioned the synergy btw the Plinius and the Pipedreams. I have not heard the Plinius but John Marks at Stereophile, an opinion I respect, swears by them.

I have listened to the Halcros and think that while the noisefloor is very low, it is too dry and analytical -- lacking soul in my book.

I currently have the Krell FPB 600 and am happy with the sound but was considering adding the Krell Master Reference to power the midrange tower and using the FPB600 to power the subs of the Pipedreams -- may be overkill. I have heard the Master Reference briefly once at one of these audio shows and was very very impressed. Paul, I was wondering if you have had a chance to listen to the Master Reference? Also, do you generally like the current Krell signature sound?

I have heard the Boulder at a friend's house and I am not sure whether it was his poor setup or the amp, I did not think that the sound was better than my setup with the Krell FPB 600 (he had the Wilson X1).

I have not heard the Goldmunds.

I generally like the sound of Rowlands but have not heard their new gear? Does anyone here have an opinion?

cchp
Dear CCHP, the newer 700cx and 750cx Krell amps are using some of the technology found in the Master Reference and I wonder if you could get near the quality at a fraction of the cost of the Master? It's worth a listen. I've owned the 600C and now the 650's and I have been very pleased with the sound and performance. I also have the KPS-25sc and was humored by the "harsh" Krell digital comment. Until the Meitner DAC 6 I recently heard at the Home Theater show in San Francisco, the Krell was the best I've listened to. Good luck.
Hifimaniac, I withdraw, without equivacation, the "harsh" characterization.

We started with Krell back in the mid-eighties with the KMA series products. Krell has ALWAYS been of the highest build quality, no question. Their signature sound is by no means offensive. It is hard to quanitatively describe, I will try with describing feelings as best I can. We often came away from extended listening times (ninty minutes or more) with a tired feeling, a slight bit of fatigue. I am not talking about headaches or noticeable pain, but an "I missed something" quality. Back then we had IMF Studio Monitors and Beveridge Electrostatics, and before much attention was paid to cabling or power and home theater didn't really exist, unless cobbled together.

Over time we've had a fair amount of other Krell product through, most extensively of late, we spent quite a bit of time with the 650Mc monoblocks about 2 years ago. We had them hooked up to Pipedreams, JM Lab Utopias, Huff Omni, Wilson Grand Slams. When mated with the Wilson's was the worst combination resulting in very etched music especially when using very revealing cable like Nordost Valhalla. The one client who kept the Krells and Grand Slams used a darker cable, Transparent Reference XL, to tame the etchiness and I think it worked pretty well. As a group we wholly discourage the use of cable as tuning devices. But in this case the client insisted on the Krells and Grand Slams. The second client with this package had the Utopias. This fellow did everything but stand on his head to make the system right; i.e. different cabling, different racks and stands, different front ends but couldn't make it work for him and we remarketed the Krells for him and recovered his investment. Notable items he tried - Transparent Reference cabling, Purist Audio Dominus cabling, Nordost Valhalla cabling, star configurations of Richard Grays power conditioners, Ensemble power cords and conditioners, Shunyata King Cobra V2 and Hydra power conditioners, and many other non-system wide changes. BTW, when I mention a cable or power cord I mean the entire system was redone in that model mentioned not just one pair.
He also insisted on listening to music at HIGH volume levels. And I mean HIGH, within 7 weeks he had totally blown out FOUR pair of tweeters in the Utopias. The repair expenses were racking up quickly, getting those tweeters from France. To make a long story short the problem ended up being an oscillation problem with the amps. I freely admit we are over my head if we need to dissect the oscillation issue, I can't be of much help. Regardless, replaced the amps with a pair of SA-250 and not one peep out of the guy!!! Have no reported problems or shortfalls from him in the last two years.

From a perspective of many Krell products touched and two fairly recent installations, one positive resolution with cabling and one negative resolved by changing out the amps. Krell is not on our most recommended list. For similar dollars we find equal or better sound without some of the quirks. Yet, I would also observe Krell remains one of the most requested brands we see from clients.

For CCHP, I strongly urge you to keep the Krell for the subs! I believe we all agree subwoofers and/or base does not experience the subtle tonal differences in midrange and highs. Krells are powerhouses and that's just what those subs need. By sharing with us this is a pipedreams systems my conviction grows quite a bit stronger to at least audition the Plinius, if you don't you'll always have that nagging bothersome doubt that drives a lot of us nuts. If you have an established relationship with a dealer to loan you some Plinius I encourage you to avail yourself to the opportunity. If not, I would make some arrangements to trial something from our end; do the best I can to "put my money where my mouth is".

Without knowing your personal preferences I would have you consider a system that looks like this:
Krell - hooked to Pipe subs with some moderately priced lightning fast cable like the Nordost Red Dawn.
Plinius - connected to the towers with Nordost Valhalla or Siltech Generation 5 products.
For the purpose of this article I am forced to assume clean and sufficient power. (Yeah, I know it's a big assumption) but were trying to offer hope here.
Front end is a crap shoot these days with format wars and uncertain connections - hope to keep whatever you have and stay with upgradeable gear with companies known for support. i.e. Theta Digital, Goldmund, dCS.

Remember we are doing Nearfield listening so one can make this setup work in many, many spaces. If the room is still a problem we would add either Z-Systems RDP-1 or Tact RCS devices to finalize room compensation. Beyond that, racks, isolation items, etc. can be fine tuned at your leisure.

Apologies for the long winded post, but I insist on not being part of the Bash Krell crowd, as that's not the case.
Response to SDR Consultant:

Thanks for your comments.

Interesting...I also play my music quite quite loud at times and have blown the Genesis II midranges twice and the B&W801 15 inch woofer also twice -- with the Krell FPB 600. Maybe it is the oscillation problem that you are referring to.

I have listened to Krells in the past and agree that the sound is fatiguing, certainly not "harsh" but can be non-emotional. However, I thought that the current Krell amps are quite musical and dare I say it "sweet" in the midrange. Superb details, great soundstaging, and very balanced from highs to lows. I have never found it to be fatiguing and have not heard a better amp except for the Rowlands (obviously I have not hear a large number of amps so my comparison is limited to Levinson, Classe, Halcro, and Pass). I love the enthralling sound of tubes (especially with female jazz vocals), especially the VACs and the Jadis, but am realistic that given how loud I play selected portions of my music, tubes would not be the answer.

I am currently using the Linn CD12 as my front end and the Levinson 32. I am extremely happy with the CD12 but feel that the Levinson 32 is to dry (may change once I decide on an amp). I suspect that my cabling would need updating as I am using Goertz silver cables.

The other amp out there that was recommended was the Gamut? Any opinions?

I will try to get a hold of the Plinius to see how it would sound with my system. Paul, have you heard the new Rowlands?

Cchp