Krell Master Reference Amplifier

Response to SDR Consultant:

Thanks for your comments.

Interesting...I also play my music quite quite loud at times and have blown the Genesis II midranges twice and the B&W801 15 inch woofer also twice -- with the Krell FPB 600. Maybe it is the oscillation problem that you are referring to.

I have listened to Krells in the past and agree that the sound is fatiguing, certainly not "harsh" but can be non-emotional. However, I thought that the current Krell amps are quite musical and dare I say it "sweet" in the midrange. Superb details, great soundstaging, and very balanced from highs to lows. I have never found it to be fatiguing and have not heard a better amp except for the Rowlands (obviously I have not hear a large number of amps so my comparison is limited to Levinson, Classe, Halcro, and Pass). I love the enthralling sound of tubes (especially with female jazz vocals), especially the VACs and the Jadis, but am realistic that given how loud I play selected portions of my music, tubes would not be the answer.

I am currently using the Linn CD12 as my front end and the Levinson 32. I am extremely happy with the CD12 but feel that the Levinson 32 is to dry (may change once I decide on an amp). I suspect that my cabling would need updating as I am using Goertz silver cables.

The other amp out there that was recommended was the Gamut? Any opinions?

I will try to get a hold of the Plinius to see how it would sound with my system. Paul, have you heard the new Rowlands?

Cchp

Hi Cchp

I would be quite surprised if some of the mega watt tube amps from ARC, VTL, Manley, Joule, Wolcott, CAT, Jadis (JA-800), Tenor hybrids wouldn't supply you with all the power you need especially if bass duty is being provided by the Krell. Either you have an EXTREMELY large room or you listen at deafening levels if some of the above tube amps wouldn't work. Tubes in general have an immediacy and in general an upfront presentation that contrasts with the generally laid back presentation of SS that makes tubes appear to be louder watt for watt IMHO.

Nice posts SDR Consultant. Very detailed and informative input.

I'd bet the house the blowouts are that oscillation issue with the Krells.

Have not spent really any extended time with the newest Krell version, so I could not give any feedback at all.

Regarding the levinson 32 - Preamps have my nemesis for a long time. I think it is the trickiest piece of a 2 channel system to get right. In the last couple of years we have really focused on eliminating the piece completely and using volume controls in the digital side - on dacs or on pieces like the tact or rdp-1. (Typically my behavior - when I can't solve a problem to my liking I go around it.)

Gamut = very solid amp, and given the Pipes are notoriously efficient it may work, but I suspect it is going to end up too small for your application.

Fascinating you ask about Rowland. It's a brand we are not a dealer for, so I arranged to "borrow" some for a trial 6-7 months ago. A client was struggling with the choice between Plinius and Rowland. It was the most recent version of the 9ti but I only had one 250 he could take. He returned the 9ti s about a week later. He indicated it was the toughest call he'd ever made in his audio quest. He mentioned some days he liked one better than the next day he liked the other better. Ultimately what tipped the scales I think was money but he never admitted it. Not that he couldn't afford it but in his eyes, it was a dead heat and one couldn't justify the triple+ price of the Rowlands. It reminds me he never did want the second 250. He shifted the savings over to the front and selected the dCS Elgar+ and Purcell combo. (the Verdi wasn't out yet) can't remember his transport though.

Cchp notes "...(I) feel that the Levinson 32 is too dry.." My experience with a 32 was identical to the word: dry.

This was in a number of combos (none incl. Krell & Pipes, but INCLUDING equip Sdr refers to), strangely even with ML amps. Again, the proverbial exotic wires (Valhalla, Siltech, Transparent...) paraded through the system on a trial basis -- but, no cigar. This was with a number of speakers...

The systems sounded like they were "solving a mathematical equation rather than making music" (as a friend aptly put it). Especially so with wide bandwidth amps (Goldmund, Symphonic-Line, Spectral).

I never found out what I was doing wrong to this superbly engineered machine... For example, a CAT pre with stock tubes gave us more musical satisfaction; so did an old Goldmund 7.1 (??)

TO make this story shorter, you might wish to consider the pre-amp sooner rather than later... since you DID mention the issue (I don't wish to sound as if I'm discrediting ML).

OTOH I'd be wary of the oscillation issue; it's something to watch out for in wide-band amplification, but it seems here that your pre-IC-amp combo is losing stability somewhere... Not being electrically inclined, I wouldn't know how to go any further... (Sean maybe?).

As to the power amps, maybe a Symphonic Line (Kraft 250 classA) can be added to the Plinius / Halcro list, if only because its sound reminds me of a big Jadis (OK, it's less romantic and has supersonic extension which may be useless... but it has excellent current capabilities & can drive anything down to ~1,0 ohm, LOUD:)). Cheers!

Random comments:
Oscillation- if you're using Goertz cables do you have the Zoebel networks added?? Don't blame the amps prematurely...(It must be early am, I'm an apologist for Krell!) I also understand that the Halcro is more system dependent than a more "universal amp" like the Plinius. Several people I respect feel the Plinius SA-102 is the very best match for the new QUADs so the 250 deserves careful scrutiny. Again my hobby-horse right now are the Empirical cables and I would audition them immediately with eyes and ears open and wallet smiling.