No disrespect meant to you, but this is exactly what I was talking about- tremendous amount of disinformation in this product category from manufacturers and their marketing departments (or lack thereof). A power conditioner needs a big transformer to do "power conditioning" and isolate the inside power from outside power. Tripp Lite does make one but there are multiple players on this category (but mostly industrial). Most of these other devices are fixes for other problems like surges, noise put on the internal lines by a noisy power supply from something plugged in to the internal power ( a big issue in studios) and voltage regulation (can be a big issue to keep power stable at 115V /120V in some parts of the country).
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@lonemountain
I never used the term "power conditioner" although that is the way Tripp Lite describes it. I described exactly what it does. Argue with Tripp Lite.
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@mashif
That model Tripp Lite is not a power conditioner.
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Tripp Lite makes a series of voltage regulator, noise filter, and surge protector. $115-300 on the big A. They're especially designed for computer rigs.
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See Review in Tone Audio this month... Isotek V5 Corvus.
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Excellent overview @lonemountain. I recently purchased an ECA "hospital" transformer that weighs 17lbs. It emits a large magnetic field and can't sit very close to the stereo, without affecting sq. 8ft away fixed that problem.
Thanks,
aldnorab
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This is a very confusing area of product and Ive been involved with a few manufacturers who build things like this. What I have learned is that the description "power conditioners" is used for a very wide mix of different products that do different things. The manufacturer info is so poor it's hard for us as consumers to work though what does vs what does it NOT do. But do your research and I think it pays off. So the different devices that are called power conditioners:
Transformer based power conditioners: These are the real power conditioners and they need a massive transformer to do their job. What they do is isolate inside power from outside power and the quality of there transformer and the size matter. This is mainly used to build a wall between inside and outside, preventing noise from getting into internal AC lines even if it's present on outside lines. This what studios and other [especially medical] folks use to get the AC circuits quiet. This is also the type of conditioner that makes gear sound better, video look better etc. The only time they appear not to work is when you have noise being injected into your lines by internal sources, such a motors or digital/switching power supplies or dimmers inside on the same power/circuits as the audio devices. Because they are transformers, they have a limit to how much power they can supply and you buy them based on how much power you need. This is also a bit confusing as you need to know what the actual power draw from the gear you are hooking up to it is. That can be a challenge to determine from gear manufacturers spec sheets and we often we are left to guess. This is where dealing with an experienced power conditioner company helps as they can advise you. You can sometimes spot a transformer based conditioner by weight. If the conditioner is a small one rack unit and costs less that $1000 and weights 3 lbs its likely not a transformer based conditioner. There are some small cube like Tripp Lite conditioners like this and have small power draws available (600W) for one piece of gear like one power amp or a TV.
Power Regenerators: Their purpose is to completely separate inside from outside power as fresh power is regenerated inside the unit. IF you start over with new power there is no noise. This idea does work but it not common in industrial application which is a clue. They are not fool proof and can also be a problem as I know of one manufacturer of recording consoles that had several consoles power supplies blow up on this type of system. I don't know much about the good vs bad situations on these regenerators so do your own research. They are controversial, I am aware of some who love them and some who hate them.
Voltage Regulators: These are devices that just make sure the voltage stays stable under low or high conditions. This is not a transformer, not a line conditioner but additional parts built into the AC line to create this voltage regulation feature. Its can be used with a transformer, a surge system or stand alone. Today, many units have MOV's built in to the power supply that prevent the unit from operating in an over (too high) voltage condition.
UPS: Uninterruptible power supplies: this a device that can supply power to its outlets via an internal battery for some period of time if the incoming power fails. They may or may not have any other features like Surge protection, Line Regulation or RF filtering etc. They are not conditioners.
Surge protection: Depending on how likely you are to suffer from lightening storms this may be very important feature. Some of the surge protection is so small or slow it doesn't really protect anything, some of it is very good. Alone these surge devices don't condition anything or improve anything. They can prevent damage from spikes which can happen in storms or from other gear on the same circuit failing and putting a big spike on the line. If I lived in a area with lightening I'd want one as I remember a TV blowing up at my grandparents farmhouse in so Illinois during an electrical storm (and they had lightening rods).
RF/EMI filters: these are devices inside the unit that filter out frequencies that are associated with RFI or EMI that are riding on the AC. Just like EQ, its reduces the level of some of these RFI and EMI noises. It's a real thing and happens often in places like New York or if you live near a radio tower or other strong RF source. Im not sure if you've experienced your cell phone making noise into your computer but this is RF noise. RF and EMI can also happen in the middle of nowhere where the power quality is poor, like being a long way away from the originating power source on an old system (old electrical grid). I would guess noise is present in electrical lines on some of these rural farms. EMI/RF suppression It's also a bit of crap shoot as the just like EQ on audio, the RF/EMI may not filter out the exact frequencies that are causing you the problem. These are usually added to transformer based line conditioners on some of the outlets but not all. Digital switching supplies are notorious for putting noise on the line and even if you separate inside from outside if you have a lot of digital supplies on the inside the noise can get passed around among devices on those same lines. I am unaware of a 100% fool proof EMI/RF solution.
It's still possible to have RF get into gear with one of these RF/EMI filters on the AC when the RF/EMI is so strong it injects itself directly into the audio boards of the unit. To prevent this you need shielding and this can be difficult to accomplish. It its basically build an RF shield around the affected unit using copper tape or other method and then draining away this RF from the audio lines. Manufacturers who have to repair or build and test RF units use a cage called Faraday cage to isolate the space inside from all RF so they can work in an interference free zone.
We see problems of RF in pro studios sometimes with gear that works perfectly 99% of the locations on earth and then gets into one location in a high RF area and there is a problem with a radio station or other noise being heard in the audio of a particular piece of gear. EMI is often something that appears from a large motor on the line like an old refrigerator. This does not mean the gear is defective. Manufacturers don't automatically build extensive RF/EMI filtering or shielded supplies or shield audio boards as it's expensive and applies to such a small number of cases it wouldn't be a benefit to all customers.
So if I follow some of the posts earlier in this thread I find all kinds of different devices that are called line conditioners that are actually voltage regulators, RF filters, surge protectors or other variants with no uniformity as to what is being called a power conditioner.
The only ones I have seen/heard actually work to reduce noise, improve sound/video and isolate inside from outside are the transformer type and these are too large to be a power strip. Furman does make one high end rack unit like this, Tripp Lite makes a number of them, Equitech is what the studios use, etc. I see none of these exotic high end brands that are sold in audiophile land (that promise improved audio) show up in studios where low noise is a critical feature of the reason you work in a studio to start with. One would think if there was consensus, or something that universally worked, you'd see it everywhere. The only real consensus I see is the transformer type conditioner. So, Buyer Beware.
The caveat to all this is that one can hear differences in AC cables, connectors etc and I have not seen any consensus on the explanation for this other than marketing speak. George Cardas explained it once to me and his was the only explanation I ever heard that made sense. He was from the power industry, where they are moving high voltage across states on those giant lines that stretch on for miles.
Brad
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@calvinandhobbes thanks for sharing. Here are a couple of (relatively) inexpensive cables from China that I have had good luck with that might work nicely with the 1200:
Audiomeca P-90 OCC power cord single crystal copper hifi power cable 3.2 square conductor - it is well made and sounds good. I am currently using one of these with the outboard power supply for my phono stage to good effect.
Xangsane P-6008Ag 7N occ silver plated plug HiFi power cable - my son is using this ugly lime green cable on a $3k headphone system and calls it the “Goldilocks cable”, because it is just right. This cable is being used by him in company with some much more expensive power cables in his main system from Audioquest and Naim, and it is keeping up.
Both of these cables are available from AliExpress for a little over 100 USD. I have also bought some real junk cables from China, but these seem like better quality and perform well.
FWIW, I am using a Shunyata Venom HC to connect my power-strip/conditioner to the wall. It works great and has10 gauge conductors, but cost more than Chinese cables described above.
kn
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I've just been going through exactly this same exercise. Some comments that I posted in another forum:
I listened to the rest of the test scenarios that I was considering
1. Cheap Computer Surge Protector - as a control
2. Audioquest Niagara 1200
3, Furman PST-8D Power Conditioner
4. Audioquest Niagara 1200 with amplifier plugged into the wall
5. Furman PST-8D Power Conditioner with amplifier plugged into the wall
3, Furman PST-8D Power Conditioner
My initial impression was that plugging my system into the Furman made music sound calmer. After several more minutes of listening, it seemed like the Furman was taking some life out of the music in comparison to both the cheap computer surge protector and the AQ Niagara. The muted dynamics and overall flatness of the sound wasn't nearly as dramatic as with the Topaz Ultra-Isolator in place, but it was noticeable especially in comparison to when my system was plugged into both the cheap computer surge protector and the AQ Niagara.
1. Cheap Computer Surge Protector - as a control
In terms of liveliness and tonal color, having my system plugged into the computer surge protector sounded surprisingly good.
2. Audioquest Niagara 1200
The effect of the Niagara 1200 seemed to convey the best parts of the sound from the Furman and from the cheap computer surge protector. It conveyed the calmness that I heard with the Furman in place while losing none of the liveliness with the computer surge protector was in place. With a perceived lower noise floor, the Niagara also allowed more detail resolution and tonal color. These last two factors seemed to make music easier to follow and understand with better clarity and separation between individual voices and instruments.
5. Furman PST-8D Power Conditioner with amplifier plugged into the wall
Plugging my amplifier into the wall with remaining components into the Furman MIGHT have resulted in a slight improvement in dynamics, but any difference was so slight that I don't think I could tell the difference in an A/B test.
4. Audioquest Niagara 1200 with amplifier plugged into the wall
No discernable difference at all, but I don't think my amp draws that much current.
Unfortunately what has sounded best in my system was the most expensive of my options. But it's been good to be able to at least compare the AQ Niagara 1200 to other options to at least appreciate what I'm getting in the Niagara 1200. I'm listening to Allan Toussaint's The Bright Mississippi album right now via digital and it's unmistakable that I'm hearing more in this album than previously without the Niagara 1200. The AQ Niagara 1200 is definitely a keeper for me.
Next steps is to try out some different power cables on the Niagara 1200 in place of the Audioquest NRG-Z3 that I've been using. Trying out power cables on the Niagara 1200 will be the easiest equipment swap of any equipment that I've tested. The Niagara 1200 is two feet from the nearest power outlet so trying out different power cables will just be a matter of unplugging one power cable and plugging in another. First step is to try out two cheaper power cables that I have on hand to see if different power cables even have any affect on sound quality.
1. Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cable: See how a "normal", $15 non-audiophile power cable sounds.
2. Shunyata Venom V14
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Cullen works for me. Think it was around $100 or so.
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This deal seems hard to beat:
https://www.markertek.com/product/fur-p8proc/furman-p-8-pro-c-power-conditioner-20-amp |
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Hi, I went through this with my system. Look at the specs. It's quiet right?
So, first I bought DX Engineering EMI RFI filters for the ethernet line. One on each end $50. I bought these as a trial to prove to myself that this conditioning stuff works. Then I would buy something more audiophile. About the same time, I got a new modem, still coax but a linear power supply. The speakers sounded better. The I bought a Furman Elite 15i. Plugged all my equipment into it. Around the house I plugged all the chargers, dimmers, etc into a furman ss6b. I have 3 of those. I have less than $500 invested. I am a firm believer the better you keep noise out of your streaming system. The sound is much better: Details, 3d and wide soundstage, bass i never knew could be so good, much more natural sounding.
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@pennfootball71 +1
That was my starting place as my main system is in a purpose built room with a dedicated 20amp circuit breaker and 10 AWG power supply line. For years I followed the logic that connecting my AVR directly to the wall would provide the best performance. I recently connected it to the strip with the Venom Defender that supported all my other gear and that made a very significant positive improvement in the overall sound of my system. Why I am interested in competing products that might work better, and given I want to try placing them with my modem in another room and my TV in the same room but served but a different outlet.
Bottom line, the Defender is a solid product, just wondering if there are similar products that might work better.
kn
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The cheapest thing to do is put a dedicated powerline into the wall
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I use a Welborne Labs, Gatekeeper. So much written (mostly negative) about this company but if you have one of their amps, power conditioners/surge protection, etc you know they are each quality pieces. I plug some fairly expensive gear into the Gatekeeper and it does the job. Prob find one used for a couple of hundo. Just my opinion...
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Check the other used equipment site for sale items.
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Thanks all again for your comments on the topic. I am intrigued by the Puron AC Power Conditioner - very good user and reviewer impressions. I may buy one and compare to Shunyata Venom Defender and ifi iPurifier in most critical site to see which works best for me. Will report back.
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I wouldn't waste my time with power conditioners marketed towards audiophiles. But I'm glad people do so that the ones I want are more readily available. Search your local craigslist for an Ametek unit, a PowerVar conditioner. They make them in consumer and medical versions, and focus on utility, the protection and lifespan of your equipment. Since you want one for your modem, these are what I would buy.
Consequently, I put one behind my PC and headphone listening rig and it made my listening rig sound blacker (silence is silent), but then my entire apartment is on a single 20A circuit in an Edwardian house with no ground in the outlets, so it's a candidate for issues to begin with.
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Didn’t realize you didn’t necessarily need surge protection. These Puron filters have been getting consistently very positive reviews for improving sound quality and definitely worth a try.
https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/puron
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@cbrez thanks, this is the kind of feedback I was seeking. I ordered an AC iPurifier and will give it a try and compare to the Venom Defender I already have.
Others, if you have experience with similar products, please share.
kn
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My vote is for the Fuhrman AC-215A for your uses. It is a very simple little box with 2 outlets, a switch, and a 10 amp circuit breaker. It uses Fuhrman’s top line LiFT line noise filtering and also their best SMP spike and surge technology as well as non-destructive EVS technology to guard against dangerous voltage irregularities.
Ive used this unit successfully for a few years now and it had no deleterious effects on the sound of my Luxman L-590AxII Class A integrated amplifier. I moved it to my computer room when I bought a functionality identical Fuhrman unit with more outlets for my hifi. Plug in a strip to extend one of the outlets to several. Currently $123.00 on Amazon
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Not sure why, but most people responding to the OP's question have missed the point.
@knownothing asked specifically about "plug in power conditioners". Not, power strip style power conditioners like a Furman PST-8D or the Audioquest Niagra.
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I have been using the PST-8D for about 6 years now on which the "Protection-On" LED is no longer is on. Called Furman and no way to reset it or protection from it.
So I am looking to purchase a new one. I don’t suppose anyone has owned the PST-8 and PST-8D and has noticed any difference (improvement) in their sound quality using the slightly more expensive PST-8D with its supposed higher level filtering?
Thanks
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phillyrover:
The PST-8 was mentioned by Erik Squires (sp?).
It is the least expensive model (within the Furman line) he recommended.
DeKay
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Audience Forte V8
very little filtering going on but does a great job.
Good luck Willy-T
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@dekay Furman has an excellent track record with post outlet line conditioning. Their conditioners are used in hospitals, music halls, studios, and laboratories because of their effectiveness in identifying and neutralizing interference.
My house was rewired to the highest spec before I moved in, and the Furman gives me dead silent power. I chose all my audio components to have inaudible levels of noise. Anyone who has a line noise problem or current instability would best spend their money on wiring and an inexpensive Furman unit. Good wiring has other benefits, including safety and uninterrupted delivery. After carefully determining that none of your components is at fault, consult an electrician to determine the source and extent of the problem.
The only problem I ever had with hum or static was when I added a French headphone amp to my system. The unit was not properly modified to reject 60hz RFI, coming from Europe where current is 50hz, so it was picking up RFI from my dimmable fluorescent bulbs. When I turned them off, the hum diminished to a much lower level - instant-on bulbs have a low standby current. Having determined the culprit, I returned it, and the system returned to silence.
Fortunately, my audio dealer is a "let's solve your problem" not an "I can sell you something expensive to fix your problem" sort.
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While I think a lot of these AC issues have local environmental elements that may determine effectiveness and the right components to help, I do own several iFi AC purifiers, including those that came with the iFi Powerstation, and they made a real difference in my home.
The AC Purifiers helped bring greater depth, greater air around instruments, and even (and I was really surprised with this) added a bit more natural tonality to instruments.
They are not that expensive and are available on Amazon, so they might be worth trying one or two in your setup.
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https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-sanely-priced-power-conditioner-that-actually-works-onfilter-pdu?highlight=Power%2Bconditioner%2Bthat%2Bworks
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Fwiw, I run my modem and router into a PS Audio Power Center w- Virtual Dynamics Power 3 PC. It’s a well built and reliable piece of gear. Does it make a detectable difference?…mehh, can’t say for sure. Nevertheless I refuse to plug any component of my system into a $5- power strip.
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Thanks for these suggestions.
I was wondering about products like these;
QKOIL QK1 AC Enhancer
QVIBE Qv2 AC Enhancer
Puron Power Filter
ifi AC iPurifier
As compared to the Shunyata Venom Defender, or a less expensive power conditioning strip like the Furman.
The Audience does look promising.
kn
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Furman PST-8 currently on sale from various vendors for $130.
I'm using one with the little computer mini-system rig and also (a week ago) added the iMac itself when our 20+ year old big APC unit conked out.
I'll pick up another one and dedicate it to the computer, modem and printer.
DeKay
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