Looking for a good 5.1 AVR

Vicdamone,

Thank you for your very well written and informative post.
I'm a big Elite fan, just not an Ice fan, so, regret, looking elsewhere to upgrade my receiver. Manufacturers like them because they're cheaper to make, don't need as much room in a rack as they don't need the ventilation and can offer consumers high(er) wattage at a lower price, which generates more sales for them. I do believe that some day, they will get better, but, for now, just not my cup of tea.

The Ice just doesn't give me that presence and impact that I desire. Class D's have been used in subs for ages, agreed, though it is much easier to reporduce an 80hz (or below) somewhat monophonic bass frequency than it is to reporduce the entire frequency range needed for HT. I, personally, am very dissapointed with the direction many HT receiver mfgs are going, embracing the Ice technology. I have heard the SC-07 - had it in my home for over a month (already boken in by dealer) and. for me, it just isn't there yet. We swapped out the SC-07 the other night and went back to the VXS-92 and watched "Knowing" in Bluray and after the first 20 minutes, my girl and I both looked at each other and said "wow". Pure chest pounding, absorbing xperience. With the SC-07, we hadn't felt it (in every bluray we threw at it). With the SC, the highs, mids and bass was there, soundstage decent (though no where as wide, or deep as a linear amp), but the biggest thing for me is the emotional impact.

The new audio codecs are absolutely excellent, and an exponential improveent over compressed dolby digital. Perhaps most who are experiencing the new codecs for the first time are doing so through the class D amps, so, it is easy to believe the better sound is due to the new amps.

IMHO, you need some pretty large power supplys (and good output tansistors, obviously) to bring that HT experience home. ICE amps just aren't very accurate, yet.

Cerrot, I find your dissatisfaction with ICE and or class D amplification's presentation completely understandable. In your first post it seemed to me that it was a typical dismissal of class D that so many give without ever actually living with the technology. Your above post adds a great deal of credibility regarding your preference. Class D, at this point is, indeed, not for everyone.

I have decided to keep some of my old amplifiers to use as a baseline in my evolving class D experience. I find the emotional impact you speak of in my MFA tube amp when I insert in my two channel system from time to time. Living with tubes since 1961 I've grown tired with there shortcomings as well as my linear solid state amplifier.

Once I understood what it took to use a class D amp to its full potential I became addicted to the unique transparency my current Nuforce amps provide in my two channel system. I'm guessing this is where the line between our preferences lies. Many hear the ultra transparency of many class D designs as forward, analytical, cold, or thin. I've heard this myself in mismatched or hastily assembled systems. I hear it as a plate glass clarity with as little playback embellishment I can provide upstream.

While the Pioneer doesn't match the NuForce finesse in my two channel system it comes close enough for me to be used in my HT system. The Pioneer didn't reproduce the same two channel sound stage in my two channel system but that's not what it's intended for. Running room corrected, reproducing 7.1 or even matrixed 5.1 to 7.1 the screen staging is simply stunning. I've already described the difference it provided compared to my previous receiver. One thing I failed to mention is that I'm driving seven Triangle Comete speakers. These provide a very easy load for any receiver.

After checking out your main system (very nice) I have a clearer appreciation of your preferences and am reminded just how we are digging for the same goal using different tools . Thanks for taking the time.

Vicdamone,

I realy enjoyed the discussion. Also appreciate the compliment on the system. Good luck with all and I appreciate your sharing your thoughts.

Dennis

Look for used Arcam on audiogon. There isn't a more musical receiver out there for the price. They are not cheap but you can get them used.

at your budget, there's not a heck of a lot of distinction between avrs--the comparably situated marantz, yam, onkyo, pioneer elite will all do the trick in essentially the same manner. personally, i'm partial to yamaha and integra, which to my ears sounds a bit less "processed" than the other mass market stuff, but as stated, the advantages are subtle.