Lossless Files Vs CD's

Dvavc came to my room at Newport and proposed an experiment, which we tried to demonstrate.

His assertion is that ripping CDs is a flawed process because he hears a difference when playing back the same track on a PC or Mac using first the CDROM as a transport and then with the ripped track playing back from hard disk.

The problem with this comparison is that it is NOT apples to apples. Because the playback hardware paths in the computer for CDROM and memory/disk playback are entirely different and they actually use two different clocks, I would expect these to sound very different. This has nothing to do with the rip quality.

A better experiment is to playback using the same method, but drive through a reclocker like my Synchro-Mesh before the DAC. This removes any differences in the playback hardware. This would allow one to hear if there are any differences in the data from the CD and the ripped file.

If Dvavc had the patience, we could have done more experiments like this. Too bad his mind was already made up.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

06-01-14: Audioengr
His assertion is that ripping CDs is a flawed process because he hears a difference when playing back the same track on a PC or Mac using first the CDROM as a transport and then with the ripped track playing back from hard disk.

The problem with this comparison is that it is NOT apples to apples. Because the playback hardware paths in the computer for CDROM and memory/disk playback are entirely different and they actually use two different clocks, I would expect these to sound very different. This has nothing to do with the rip quality.

I agree completely, Steve. The experimental methodology he described in his first post in this thread (dated 5-22-14), the validity of which I disputed in my subsequent response, cannot distinguish between effects occurring during the ripping process and effects occurring during the playback process. Yet he attributes the differences he perceived to the ripping process, even though (as we've both explained) it is entirely expectable and technically explainable that differences will be introduced during playback, and entirely unexpectable and technically inexplicable that differences will be introduced during a properly implemented rip.

Regards,
-- Al

Electroslacker: The analogy of ripping to a Xerox copy is in audio dimension, not in digital one. I.e. it just to give a hint to all of you what specific loss of SQ i'm complaining about and what you should look for when comparing CD to files. I'm on my way to T.H.E. Show. Talk later.

I have not done extensive AB comparisons to listen to the difference between CD and lossless files of the same source material, so, my own experience is limited and not of the apples-to-apples variety. But, I have at least heard implementations involving the same brand, so presumably there at least is a bit more similarity between gear. I own a Naim CD 555 CD player and a Naim NDS server system. The Naim NDS system rips all CDs to WAV files, which I store on a 6TB QNap NAS. As for my personal preference, I actually like the sound of the CD 555 more (slightly warmer and with less brittle sound), though both are quite decent. The convenience and easy access to my entire collection (4,000 CDs) makes me NOT want to plug the CD 555 back into my system.

As between WAV and FLAC files, I heard a comparison of a CD ripped to WAV and to FLAC (on a thumb drive) and it was quite easy to hear the difference--the WAV file was better (I could not control for the difference between storage/retrieval from the NAS and from the thumb drive).

I have heard good sound from both computer-based and CD spinner based systems, so I don't think that the differences are so large that one is CLEARLY superior to the other. Moreover, I find that differences between models of DACs, particularly with respect to the kind of analogue output stages and filterless v. filtered/oversampling DACs makes a big difference, moreso than CD v. server or even CD v. SACD.

I have done enough comparisons myself to be convinced there is no significant difference between CD resolution lossless files ripped accurately by software designed to rip in a manner that properly validates the data read before writing.

I lose no sleep over this.

There is a lot that goes into creating a good digital music library from various sources though, especially non-digital ones like vinyl and tape. I have lost some sleep probably at some time trying to make that process both fast and efficient.

CD ripping is a slam dunk these days though.