Lyra Kleos vs Koetsu Urushi

I have owned the Kleos and used w/ the CAT Renaissance Pre......
mostly w/ a VPI Classic 3 TT.  I like many other VPI owners
did not find the Kleos to be a good match and I think in my case,
the CAT didn't like it either.......

I have no experience w/ the Koetsu, but currently am running a Transfiguration Proteus on a VPI HRX and it is everything the Kleos
was not, and I've also heard the similarly priced Axia from Transfig
and it also is a great match........but with both, I would use a
great SUT with the CAT, which will also quiet it down......I use a Hashmito HM7 based transformer from Traditions Audio, which is around 12-1400

Thanks


Eric

Eric, what did you not like about your Kleos..? did you run it straight into the CAT or did you use the SUT? The Kleos has a lot more output than the Proteus ( BTW I think the Proteus is a GREAT cartridge!) so, if you were using the SUT with the Kleos, that might well account for the differences. Have you tried running the Proteus into the CAT without the SUT? Also, doesn't the CAT Renaissance have a built in SUT now, as well as the all tube phono stage?

Dear @stewart0722 : """  I like many other VPI owners
did not find the Kleos to be a good match... """

well, then the problem is in the VPI and not the Kleos because it's not the cartridge the one that should match a tonearm but the other way around. The OP has not VPI but a way different TT/tonearm.

Yes, the Proteus is very good performer.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Totally disagree......

The reason the Kleos doesn't match well with VPI tables is because both exhibit a leaning toward dark.........It's not a VPI thing, it's true of most suspension-less high mass turntables......

To say it's one's components FAULT or the other is ridiculous, it's a matter of synergy and that is true of all components.......so we have a tube preamp that is not a great match for a certain solid state amp of another brand......do we then say "Well it must be the amps fault, because that preamp was designed to work perfectly WITH ANY AMP"   LOL

Do we try a pair of cables on a pair of loudspeakers, and we find less than a great musical match, so we then try to figure out which component is at fault????

Hint: Neither of them are at fault......

It's a matter of a series of synergistic matches among components in a system......and that is why most audiophiles at the very high end swap out dozens of components before settling on an end game......

I've heard the Kleos sound great on an Oracle turntable.....I've heard it sound very dark on a VPI table.....so what?????   

I've heard transig and ortofon sound great on VPI.........don't know about Koetsu.....

It's all about synergistic matching.....not about finding blame......with components that were never designed with each other in mind......

Dear @stewart0722 : I respect your opinion.

Why said I that the problem is not the Kleos?:

other than the LP the cartridge is the star in an analog rig and its very first " slave " is the tonearm not the other way around.

So if any one wants to choose a cartridge and only that cartridge he needs to know the best tonearms to serves it and if that gentleman does not own the right tonearm then he needs to change his tonearm.

The Kleos is a very very good quality performer and if in an audio system the owner did not like it is then exist a " fault " somewhere in the system, ( where belongs not only the tonearm. ) that could includes a wrong cartridge set up too.

Yes, synergy is the answer.

"""  and that is why most audiophiles at the very high end swap out dozens of components before settling on an end game. """

maybe is because they have not a repeateable and valid methodology system to detect audio system link problems in the whole audio chain.
With out that " severe " and wide methodology process you just can't do it.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.