Lyra Kleos vs Koetsu Urushi

Dear @stewart0722 : """  I like many other VPI owners
did not find the Kleos to be a good match... """

well, then the problem is in the VPI and not the Kleos because it's not the cartridge the one that should match a tonearm but the other way around. The OP has not VPI but a way different TT/tonearm.

Yes, the Proteus is very good performer.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Totally disagree......

The reason the Kleos doesn't match well with VPI tables is because both exhibit a leaning toward dark.........It's not a VPI thing, it's true of most suspension-less high mass turntables......

To say it's one's components FAULT or the other is ridiculous, it's a matter of synergy and that is true of all components.......so we have a tube preamp that is not a great match for a certain solid state amp of another brand......do we then say "Well it must be the amps fault, because that preamp was designed to work perfectly WITH ANY AMP"   LOL

Do we try a pair of cables on a pair of loudspeakers, and we find less than a great musical match, so we then try to figure out which component is at fault????

Hint: Neither of them are at fault......

It's a matter of a series of synergistic matches among components in a system......and that is why most audiophiles at the very high end swap out dozens of components before settling on an end game......

I've heard the Kleos sound great on an Oracle turntable.....I've heard it sound very dark on a VPI table.....so what?????   

I've heard transig and ortofon sound great on VPI.........don't know about Koetsu.....

It's all about synergistic matching.....not about finding blame......with components that were never designed with each other in mind......

Dear @stewart0722 : I respect your opinion.

Why said I that the problem is not the Kleos?:

other than the LP the cartridge is the star in an analog rig and its very first " slave " is the tonearm not the other way around.

So if any one wants to choose a cartridge and only that cartridge he needs to know the best tonearms to serves it and if that gentleman does not own the right tonearm then he needs to change his tonearm.

The Kleos is a very very good quality performer and if in an audio system the owner did not like it is then exist a " fault " somewhere in the system, ( where belongs not only the tonearm. ) that could includes a wrong cartridge set up too.

Yes, synergy is the answer.

"""  and that is why most audiophiles at the very high end swap out dozens of components before settling on an end game. """

maybe is because they have not a repeateable and valid methodology system to detect audio system link problems in the whole audio chain.
With out that " severe " and wide methodology process you just can't do it.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Synergy is the answer?
To repeat a opinion without any knowlege again and again until it will be transformed into a fact?
Maybe in Mexico where they still think the VW Beetle is an ultimate car...
normally knowledge is the better way to go but we all know, not everyone supports this

My Kleos sounds absolutely stunning driving an ARC Ref 2SE phono. The Kleos sounded great on my PH8 but the improvement with the Ref2 SE was staggering - all other components were the same.
1) Phono stage makes a huge difference - especially with low output MC cartridges
2) Not everyone who owns a particular component can say he knows its full character and is getting the best out of it. This is especially true of a high end, hand-made phono cartridges. My impression of the Kleos thru the REF 2SE is very different than before with the PH8. It still sounds like a Kleos but far more dimensional, dynamic, and musical. I would not describe it as dark with either the PH8 or Ref 2SE.

I’ve never been tempted by a Koetsu because I won’t buy a cart that does not have threaded mounting holes. I am extremely meticulous about set-up. Why mess with needle nose pliers on tiny nuts if I don’t have too? My focus is on precise set-up and threaded holes make this so much easier.
The other thing about Koetsus are those stone boxes. While beautiful - and so many to choose from - I'm missing the design element there. They look like little legos bricks or monopoly hotels. I'd rather put my money on an amazing body using some state-of-the art, "out-of-the-box" thinking. Look at the Dynavector Xv1s or the Lyra Atlas. There I see design innovation and if I’m spending over 5K that’s what I want.
Other tastes/demands vary. It's a fun hobby. You should get what makes you happy.