Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

@lordmelton  and others using I2S rather than usb. I continue to be intrigued with I2S only because possible theoretical advantages vs usb, this being I2S being native protocol for dacs.

I've been searching for servers with I2S, virtually non-existent, motherboards don't have it natively, only diy solutions. One could do atx board build and use Pink Faun I2S HDMI board, bet that's very nice, but requires diy or custom build by another.

So most are limited to DDC/streamer conversion, usb still in chain from server to ddc/streamer, thus, not true pure I2S connection from server processor to dac. Also, streamers with I2S out very limited choices, since streamers critical to sound quality, limited availability may mean these streamers not be up to the best quality usb streamers with their much greater availability and variability.  Also, no standardization of pin outs on I2S, so dip switches required for proper orientation, presume dip switches have some negative impact on sound quality. This possible downside could be alleviated with custom built I2S cable, so good there. The final possible downside is I2S clocking within dacs. Since its native protocol, perhaps no extra clocking needed, as used on good usb boards within dacs?

As some of you know, I had Singxer SU6, never tried, lack of motivation due to great usb sound quality, also considered some of the technical issues listed above, and others specific to my setup to be theoretical disadvantages vs usb.

So my issues with I2S in general, assuming there are in fact theoretical advantages for dacs with I2S inputs. One is no pure I2S available server to dac. Two, no standardization of !2S pin outs or connector type.  

Seems to me dac manufacturers should state which input best, I suspect they put greatest engineering efforts towards usb because its input they use in voicing dacs, I2s if included, only for convenience. If they also voiced with I2S, they should state whether superior or not. On the server end of things, manufacturers should devise a method for I2S rendering if there is understanding I2S superior to usb or spdif. Pink Faun manufactures what is likely the best I2S streamer/renderer available, but this is expansion card for atx motherboard only, Baetis only off the shelf atx I'm aware of, otherwise custom build.

I don't understand why rendering has to be so secretive, complicated and as yet, objectively optimized. We need dac and server manufacturers working together in optimizing streaming chains, until then we have to guess or rely on the rare direct equalized comparison, difficult to do. I'd love to do an atx/Pink Faun I2S comp to my present usb, would be nice to know 005 preferred port.

I have the 005 for couple of weeks now and it sounds very good to me. I will say that at this price point, it surprised me and concur with what has been already said about this DAC. I am enjoying it as much.

The way the USB sounds, I don't have much desire to move to I2S - my server side USB is very optimized with JCAT USB XE feed with some very exotic power supplies. I am currently trying out few USB cables though that I already have at hand (Network Acoustics, Westminster, Sablon) to see which one has better synergy with the server and 005 - they all sound fabulous in general.

I have a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF2 DDC that I had bought a long while for the PS Audio DS DAC. Tried briefly to feed 005 with an Audioquest I2S hdmi and compare with the USB - needless to say it was a big step down. So just moving to I2S doesn't necessarily provides an automatic sound improvement even though I2S is a native interface to the DAC chip. So its only relative to what you are using which is USB in my case.

However, the LKS DDC gets a high praise here. Its cheap enough to try one and I might get to it at some point if I am motivated enough but I will need to build another power supply which has to be equivalent or better than the one powering the JCAT USB. I think I might have hit the ceiling with 005 in terms of feeding it with clean and jitter free signal. The only way I can think of improving the sound quality further with 005 is by improving my diy server. I have few ideas which I will try over time but so far I am enjoying.

I’ve written this before, but it’s worth repeating as Audiogon does not have a search within thread function. The Amanero board within the Musetec does the conversion from USB to I2S just like the external boards. It does that with an excellent power supply using super-capacitors, and clocks which probably outperform those on external DDCs. And without any cable carrying the I2S signals.  Some here think that function can be better performed by an external DDC. Some think it cannot.

@debjit_g Very interesting. Assuming you have atx board, why don't you try Pink Faun I2S board to compare with Jcat usb?

Having mentioned many times throughout this thread my curiosity and assumption atx board servers may be SOTA, perhaps I should mention I do in fact have relatively high end diy custom atx motherboard computer in house. I built this five or six years ago, relatively high level AMD processor, liquid cooling, gamer motherboard, high end graphics, improved motherboard audio all in giant case. This was real exercise in excess, built for the fun of it. I've thought about converting to music server only duty from time to time, but power supply mods ($2-5K), cards themselves (each one $400-2.5K) and time and effort to install hardware, optimize software, OS may not be worth it for build that started as general service computer. The AMD processor may be overkill, no dsp for me, and faster processors make more noise, liquid cooling inferior to passive air for audio duty because of noise and power supply demands,  also, the motherboard isn't inherently best for music server duty. So, bottom line, I'd be able to try great rendering with Pink Faun and JCAT cards, but within context of less than SOTA atx build.

Hearing your less than satisfactory results using external DDC kind of confirms my  presumption Singxer SU6 would be inferior to my usb setup. This was initially confirmed to some extent by observation of some modifying the SU6 with external power supplies, this despite having supercap PS which Alan at Vinshine claimed didn't benefit from lps. I also saw further mods to, can't recall if it was voltage regulator, caps? All this confirmed inherent issues with even higher grade DDC, they need to be top grade to optimize I2S.

@melm I totally agree with you, between the engineering of that board, and sound quality, both initially, and continuing, I should have absolutely no motivation to even try the I2S scheme. But then would I really be an audiophile if I wasn't at least curious! And this the reason for all my atx server curiosity.

I suppose all my streaming upgrade plans are based on wanting to hear full resolving capabilities of 005. This damn dac just wants to lead me down this path where everything feeding it needs to be SOTA. I've never had a source like this prior to 005, prior vinyl and digital source resolving limitations have been exposed for perhaps last ten years or so by the rest of my system or systems.